Makena: Hello. 

Gigi: Hi. Hello, Makena. Good to see you.

Makena: Good to see you. So we are diving in today with a really fun topic. Why don’t you kick us off, Gigi?

Gigi: Yeah. Have you ever had an experience of meeting a guide, a mentor, or a teacher that really changed the direction of your life or career?

Makena: You. You’ve been that for me, for sure. 

What about you? I know you’ve had a lot of mentors along the way. I don’t even know how much we’ve talked about it, so I’d love to hear some of those stories.

Gigi: When I was young, I would seek out mentors. 

One that I remember, one of the earliest, was when I was in my early teens, around 12. 

For about three years, I was in modeling and taking a lot of programs. The woman who ran the programs, I admired her so much. I really went into service to her and assisted her, and through that, she allowed me to have a lot of leadership in the programs. 

That was my first experience, and I loved it because I learned from her. There are things that she did that, to this day, I know are part of what she taught me early on.

Makena: How old were you?

Gigi: I was 12, 13, 14.

Makena: Oh, wow. Cool. And so, leadership—you were helping guide the program or helping teach early on?

Gigi: Yes, there were certain parts of the program I would take again. She would allow me to be the person that led and had the girls do certain things. I was a trainer way back at 12 years old.

Makena: That’s so fun. I love that story. 

What other mentors can you remember from your early years?

Gigi: In school, same thing—I didn’t like school when I went into high school. I was in a classroom with one of the teachers, who was a coach. I would get in there and assist him, help him out. Same thing—there were certain areas that he let me get up and lead and teach.

Makena: Obviously, your mentors saw something specific in you.

Gigi: Yes, obviously. When I was in my early 20s, I worked in the telecommunications industry. I was a survey clerk, then moved to showing companies how to use systems. 

I was training back then too. It’s what I gravitated to, which is fascinating. I had amazing mentors on and on again.

Makena: So, lots of early mentors. And then, as you stepped into your work doing coaching, that came through a mentorship as well. 

I think we’ve told that story a little bit, but you were how old? 

Gigi: Twenty-seven.

Makena: Maybe a brief version—you went to a workshop, and you met a mentor.

Gigi: Yes. I went to the workshop, and it changed my life. I walked out feeling more like myself than I ever had in my whole life. 

The work I do today is because I stumbled upon that mentor. The facilitator became my mentor, who I learned from. He saw that I had a gift for working with people early on and really encouraged me and believed in me.

I would never have done it on my own—it wasn’t something I wanted to do. But it gave me confidence. It wasn’t just about the work I do today; it was about a completely different life. It brought me to what I think I was meant to do on the planet. That was an incredible moment in my life.

Makena: It’s really cool to hear how each of those mentors shaped you in that direction, even if you couldn’t have known it at the time, right? It was different topics—modeling, or I can’t remember what you said the teacher did in school—but you were facilitating and training. That became the work you do. I think that’s so interesting. 

Someone once said to me, “We can’t connect the dots looking forward; we can only connect them looking back.”

Gigi: Yes, and it’s interesting because I don’t often reflect this way, and I didn’t see quite that line until we talked today. That’s fantastic. 

And, Makena, I know you’ve also always gravitated toward finding mentors since you were young.

Makena: Yes, especially being in your seminars at a really young age. We’ve talked about this, starting around age seven—I wanted to participate with all the adults. I was fascinated by what was going on. You started to guide me, and I was allowed to assist, and eventually, I got up and even trained parts of the trainings in my teens, which I didn’t think much of because I was homeschooled and not around other kids. That was pretty unique, I think. 

I wanted to learn. I do remember loving learning and being guided. I was like, “How do I learn this? How do I get good at this?” That was my early years.

When I went to university, which was the first time I ever went to school, I found professors. Maybe they weren’t mentors to the same degree, but they were more than just professors to me. I didn’t have a typical professor-student relationship. I got to know them; I took an interest in them, and they took an interest in me. They really helped foster me through my education. They cared about my success and helped guide me.

There was a time when I was going to transfer out of my major, which was international business. There were a lot of requirements and not many fun electives. The head of the program asked me to stay. He said, “I think you’re such a great student.” We had a great relationship, and I’m glad I stayed. It was a big accomplishment for me.

Gigi: That’s often the case—mentors see something in you or see the direction that’s right for you. They give you feedback when you can’t see it for yourself.

Makena: Yes. I’m always curious: why did people take an interest in me? You and I talked about this a little beforehand, and I think it’s because I was really curious. I took an interest not only in them as people, but I was curious. I wanted to learn, and they saw that desire in me. 

Would you say that’s true, as far as you’ve mentored me?

Gigi: Yes, I was the same way with my mentors—fascinated, curious. Like I said, I went into service to them. I would do whatever it took: show up early, do anything to learn and be connected. I loved what they were doing and wanted to learn. 

Curiosity is one of the biggest things I’ve seen in the students I’ve mentored throughout my career.

Makena: Yes, and I think I went into service, too. At university, I was really involved on campus, hosting events for departments. I got involved with the Spanish department and became close with my Spanish professor, who was also the head of the department. 

I did different things in service, maybe not just to the professor but to the school. I won seven awards my senior year—both the number one and number two awards in my department, which I don’t think had ever happened before. 

They called my name for the top award, and I accepted it. I sat down, and then they called my name again. I thought, “Is this a joke?” But again, I was in service to the university and my professors.

We were talking a little about how mentors help accelerate your success in any area. 

What do you see around that, Gigi? You said mentors really help you accelerate your success.

Gigi: Well, if you find a mentor in an area where you want to learn, they can be great coaches, too. 

You could go the path of trial and error, and maybe you’ll be successful quickly, but the odds increase exponentially when you find someone who has mastered an area you’re curious about, or someone who sees something in you and pushes you and challenges you. You can cut years off the process—years off from accelerating in whatever you want to do.

Makena: In terms of accelerating your success, I absolutely see that with you. 

We talk about this all the time. If I had started on this path and gone out to grow a coaching business, learning the art and craft of coaching, developing myself, and building a business—all the things I’ve done over these years—it would have taken me far more time. Years and years longer to reach this stage of development. 

In some ways, I don’t even know if I would have. There are so many ways in which you guided me and helped me grow, not only in my craft and business but as a person.

I think that’s the biggest way I see it—that probably wouldn’t have happened without your guidance. 

And in terms of the growth in business and coaching, it would have taken years longer.

Gigi: Yes, in business, you can learn the principles, but I’ve seen your acceleration as an incredible coach. That’s happened very quickly. The transition in just the last three years is amazing.

Makena: I’m curious, what do you see as the difference between a teacher and a mentor? We’re talking about people who can be both, but I think there’s an important distinction you’re making here about what makes a mentor different.

How does that go above and beyond maybe what a typical teacher would do? 

Gigi: I see a teacher as someone who teaches things—they share information and teach skills. Some teachers are mentors, but let’s stick with the teacher for a moment. They’re incredible at what they do, but when it shifts to mentorship, it’s different. 

Mentors aren’t just teaching; they help you reflect on yourself, give you feedback, and bring out the best in you. They also see what’s stopping you. They guide you outside the realm of the subject area—it’s more about helping you develop and become the person you’re meant to be in whatever area you’ve chosen. 

For you, it was coaching. I didn’t just teach you how to coach. We worked on every aspect of who you are in your life, including the places where you were stopping yourself and couldn’t see things. We developed you. 

It would have been very different if you had hired a coach and just gone through the motions.

Makena: I hired several coaches in my twenties, when I was building my first business and looking to see what was next. I was having anxiety and panic attacks, and I had a sense that there was something else I wanted to be doing, but I didn’t know how I wanted to grow. 

I joined a mastermind and worked with different coaches. They gave me a lot of good ideas. They taught and shared what they knew, which was more like a teacher, as you’re saying, but there was a quality that was missing. I couldn’t really put my finger on what it was.

I came away with a lot of good ideas, but nothing quite fit. I wasn’t any clearer. I kept thinking, “I don’t know if that’s it.” 

With you, though, there was a different quality. I remembered that feeling from being young and being in the workshops with you, guiding me in different ways. I remembered the feeling of coming to clarity, where it was right—it was aligned for me. 

I knew deep down, “Yes, that’s what I want. This is the direction.” 

I wasn’t finding that kind of clarity on my own. I was struggling, looking, and searching, feeling stuck, going around in circles in my head.

With you, there was a shift. You supported me to get clear that I did want to step into coaching and that I wanted to learn from you. All the things that led me onto this path six and a half years ago didn’t come from you telling me anything. All you did was ask me powerful questions and reflect back what you saw. 

And of course, through the process we’ve talked about, you helped me unwind and come to a place where I could see clearly.

If you haven’t listened to the episode “When Women Relax, We Become Wise”, it was one of our first episodes. We go more deeply into some of these stories there. 

Those elements were so different from anything I was finding anywhere else. And you had a personal interest—not just because I’m your daughter, although I’m sure that played a part—but like any mentor, you took a personal interest in your student, which goes above and beyond just hiring a typical coach.

Gigi: Yes, and that’s the interest I’ve had in mentoring many people, many women who have become very successful. It’s because of their interest. 

You can’t mentor someone who isn’t curious and ready; like they say, “When the student is ready, the teacher will come.”

Makena: There’s something so different in the way you work with your clients. I don’t know many coaches who mentor and really go deep in the way that you do. 

You’ve taught me to take a genuine interest in your clients and their lives. Whether they work with us over a long period of time or even for just six months or a year, we’re always talking about what’s going on with them, taking an interest in their development, their growth, and helping them reach their visions and goals.

What I see in you is that if there’s curiosity from someone to learn and grow over time, you go a level deeper. I’m not sure how else to describe it, but it’s something I notice in your approach.

Gigi: Yes, a great mentor taps into your intelligence. That’s what they do. They help you bring out the best in yourself, and sometimes, that involves putting you through things that are challenging, so you have to dig deep. 

A mentor also challenges your limiting beliefs and laziness. A mentor who has your best interest at heart brings out the best in you without breaking your spirit.

Makena: There’s a lot in there we can unpack for a minute.

Gigi: Yes. Did you ever see the movie Spirit: Stallion of the Cimarron?

Makena: Yes, I think so, years ago.

Gigi: Yes, it’s such a great movie because he’s this wild animal, right? And they try to break him, try to break him. There’s another horse in there…

We don’t want to break the spirit of the student. That’s the main thing.

Makena: I was thinking more about the distinction between a mentor and a teacher. 

There are many people who play sports, and let’s say you’re on a sports team with a great coach. There are many great coaches who guide their teams to win, and so many people have had great coaches in their life. But then there are times when a coach takes a particular interest in a student or develops a relationship that goes beyond being just a great coach. A phenomenal coach can guide a team, but that’s often where the relationship ends. 

Maybe they take an interest in their players as people, but there are these mentors you see in sports. If I watch documentaries about some of the great athletes, they’ve developed these deep relationships with their coaches, where the coach takes a personal interest in the athlete and vice versa.

I feel it’s about seeing the person and their potential, believing in their greatness, and, like you’re saying, also noticing where they have weaknesses or challenges. The coach has to be willing to shine a light on those things to help the athlete become the best version of themselves. That’s what I see a great mentor does as well, whether they’re also a coach or not. 

There are many kinds of mentors, but what you’ve done for me is see my potential, believe in it, and guide me. You’ve also pointed out where I had areas to grow, where I needed to self-reflect, or move beyond limiting beliefs, or parts of myself that needed some work.

Gigi: Yes, and you know, that’s the other part—you were willing to look and reflect. 

A lot of people get to a point where they don’t want to, or maybe they take something personally. But with a student who is willing to walk through that, that’s where growth happens. I think that’s also why, as a mentor, we keep going, because we see that you’re willing to go there. You’re willing to look, make the shifts, and make the changes. Through that, we can evolve and keep moving forward. 

You’ve been a bit challenging at times, and we’ve had our moments.

Makena: Got to keep you on your toes.

Gig: Yes, thanks! But it’s the willingness to self-reflect that’s key. In any area—sports or anything else—it’s about the spirit of the student getting back up, not getting knocked off by taking something personally, and saying, “I’m going to go for it. I have trust, and I’m going to keep going for it.”

Makena: I have trust. That piece is huge. The trust piece is paramount to a mentor-student or mentor-mentee relationship. It’s what allows it to grow and evolve beyond just a typical teacher-student relationship—you build trust with someone over time. 

That’s why I’ve been able to take feedback from you. In those moments when you shared something that was hard or uncomfortable, or when I had to self-reflect on something, if I didn’t have complete trust in you—that you had my highest good in mind and were seeing something important—I wouldn’t have been able to take it. 

You shared things because you knew they would help me grow and develop, not just to be hard on me. If I didn’t have that trust, especially as a mother-daughter, I would never have been able to take a lot of the feedback. That’s something really important.

So for anyone listening, as we talk about the difference between a mentor and a teacher, and share stories of our own experiences, if you’re reflecting on whether this is something you’re looking for, it has to be with a person you can truly build that level of trust with and know that they have your best interests at heart—even when it’s challenging.

And the other piece is that a mentor is human too.

Gigi: Absolutely. 

Makena: That’s something people have a hard time with.

I think when people really respect someone and admire someone and are learning from someone, they can put them on a pedestal sometimes and go, “Oh, they need to have it all figured out, right? Their whole life needs to be put together or whatever.” 

Otherwise, they fall off this pedestal. But I think that’s another key piece, as a student or a mentee, is being able to hold the paradox of they’re a human being, and they’ve got whatever—they’ve got their own quirks, they’ve got all of that.

And in the areas in which they are mentoring you, and that’s what you’ve come in to really learn and grow and develop, they, again, have your best interest at heart. They see something, they have a knowledge there, they have a gift.

Gigi: That’s a really, really great distinction because I don’t have it all together. You’ve seen—you see my worst. You’re my daughter. 

And that also, for students, to be able to work, like you said, the paradox of that. You know, I have to say, many clients—just this morning I was writing down because we’re doing something and writing down—there’s about five women that have worked with me, you know, over 12 years.

And of course, often not, and they have been consistently through the 12 years, but they always come back. That is because they know my life and they know my ups and downs, but they also know that when I work with them, it’s about them. 

Them not having judgments of me, and I also don’t have judgments of them. I allow them to continually create and recreate themselves because there’s no…

Makena: And it’s also that they can see the impact on their life over time. I think that’s huge—what is the impact on your life over time as you’re working with that person? 

A lot of times, what makes a great mentee is someone who really—because again, if you’re listening to this and you think, “Wow, I’d love more mentorship in my life, I’d love to have teachers and guides who go a level deeper and go beyond just whatever our relationship is,” whether it’s someone you’ve hired or just someone you know in passing. 

If you’d like more of that, I think a key piece there is the curiosity piece we talked about. It’s the piece of being able and willing to hold the paradox of the fact that they are human. 

Then it’s also the piece of trust, like we said, and respect—it is honoring the contribution that a mentor has on your life. And that is a huge piece. 

I think about those women you’ve worked with over the years, over a decade, many of them, and the changes and evolution in their life are astronomical. It’s incredible to watch how their businesses have grown, how their lives have grown, their relationships, their families, their fulfillment.

I mean, truly, we’re going to share some stories here in some upcoming episodes. It’s so amazing to see. And of course, they went out and did it, they did the work. 

And they honor that you were a huge impact and a force in helping them to do that.

That is a key piece. The people I see who maybe don’t grow to the same degree—though they have huge, amazing results or whatever—maybe they don’t develop in that same trajectory, that kind of exponential growth over time. 

Often there is this thing of not seeing the… I don’t know how to describe it. Do you know what I’m talking about there?

Gigi: Oh, it is. It is always acknowledging the source of things, right? It’s acknowledging—again, with the women that I’ve worked with, as you said—they acknowledge where the intervention came from. They always give credit, hugely. 

And what that does is it helps keep it alive in them and helps it grow in them. Do you understand that?

Makena: Tell me more about what you mean by that.

Gigi: So, when I share where something came from and share my experience, and when they’re talking, often they will say, “Because of their work with me” or “Because of a conversation,” that allows it to stay alive in them. It allows it to grow in them. 

If they just say, “Well, I changed, and I did this and that,” but there’s no depth to how that happened, then they forget. You know, that’s the thing—they forget. And it’s not like they need to be out saying that all the time. It’s just a matter of acknowledging it, and that allows it to stay alive in them. It allows it to stay fresh in them. 

They remember where they came from and where they are today.

What I see with people is when they forget that—and we don’t have to be talking about it every day—but when they forget, things become a little stale.

Makena: It’s honoring the source, like you’re saying—the mentor—and also honoring your journey in the sense of the evolution, right? What it took, where you were, where you are now, what that growth path was. That really keeps you connected to something. 

It’s also a piece of, I guess, humility, but not in the sense of making yourself small. It’s about fully owning what I’ve done, who I’ve become, the strengths, the confidence, the skills I’ve developed, and completely honoring and telling you all the time the impact you’ve had. Just how amazing that is.

For me, reflecting on why that’s important—it brings in respect for you, but also this feeling of awe and gratitude. It keeps it alive in me, like you’re saying. It’s richer in me, knowing where I am and being able to look back. 

We’re going to talk more about this in our next episode, around the art of seeing between the lines. 

I can look back at so many moments where one conversation with you, or one thing you told me, or one thing you saw in me, changed the trajectory of my life. Truly. It’s that thing of connecting the dots looking back, and it changed my life in a really incredible way.

So we’ll talk more about that skill and everything in the next episode, but I just wanted to share a couple of those things. 

If anyone’s listening and thinking, “I’d love more mentorship,” these are things to be reflecting on and being aware of, or cultivating in yourself as you go out to really look for the right kind of person.

Gigi:  So, with mentorship… again, thank you, thank you for your acknowledgment. 

The other distinction to make is, in a student-mentorship relationship, you’re the one that did the work. I didn’t do it, but I was the guide, like we said, or the catalyst for that.

The other acknowledgment is that, as a student or a client, if you didn’t do the work, nothing would have happened, right? I can’t make you do anything. I think that’s so important. It really is something we do together, and we both have a part in it.

Makena: Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. If someone’s looking to have more mentorship in their life, how would they go about that? I guess you can find it in the form of coaches. What else?

Gigi: Coaches. And I think you have to look and see. Of course, coaches, but it depends on the arena. Often, you just see it in people, right? You see a quality in someone, someone you respect a lot, maybe how they are in a certain area. It could be real estate development—it could be anything. 

They have similar values. It doesn’t mean you have to have exactly the same values, but there’s a resonance there with someone you really respect. You can start paying attention to that anywhere in your life.

I’ll say I just hired a mentor coach and invested a lot of money. It was interesting because I went through this process: I asked myself, “If I don’t get this support, where will I be a year from now?” I thought, “I’ll be in a great place. I’ll continue to move forward. I know I’ll continue to be successful.” 

Then I asked, “If I do get the support, where will I be a year from now?” And I saw immediately, “Oh my gosh,” like we talked about, exponential growth, right? Because I’ll have that kind of support. 

I think it’s so important to see that when you’re looking for someone.

Another huge piece of why I chose this person is the values. The values are the same. I can sense and feel it. It’s very similar to the way I do my work. Learning from that and seeing how to accelerate my success is crucial.

Makena: I think that resonance piece is so important. I’ve really learned that through investing in different coaches, programs, mentors, and guides over the years. 

I’ve also learned from making investments that were more from thinking, “Oh, it seems like they have everything I need, or this is the next thing I should learn.” 

While I took something away from every investment I made, those ones weren’t always what I thought, or they didn’t yield the results I wanted. 

When I followed my intuition, my feeling—like you’re saying—with values alignment and something about that person or program resonating, I leaned in and said yes. Those are the ones where I’m like, “Wow, the impact that’s had on me is incredible.”

So, whether someone’s investing or choosing a mentor elsewhere, that values alignment and resonance piece is so, so important.

Gigi: Yes. And for me right now, as you know, we’ve discussed—after doing my work for 38 years—I’m at a place where all I really want to do is mentor because I feel like I have so much to teach. I’m only going to work in this kind of business for probably three more years.

We’ve even shifted our mastermind to where it’s still a business coaching program, but it’s also going to be hugely focused on mentorship. I’ll be really mentoring the women in a lot of different areas to grow their lives and businesses, and to learn what I know, which is always super exciting for a mentor to be able to share.

Makena: I was so excited when you told me this. 

I mean, first of all, the fact that you’re going to be doing this kind of work for three more years is, like, sad, but also exciting for you, of course, to have more space and more freedom. 

It’s always felt really important to me. This is a huge part of why we created this podcast and why we’ve done many of the things that we’ve done. It’s about what you’ve been for me and done for me in terms of your guidance, your belief, your mentorship. 

Being able to share that with other people, being able to have people get either tiny little bits from this podcast or come in and work deeply with you and have that kind of belief and guidance—seeing, learning to really accelerate their lives like you’ve done for me and so many of the women you’ve mentored over the years.

It’s about really accelerating people in terms of their visions, their dreams, their goals, but also, like you said, going beyond that to help them develop into who they’re meant to be.

When you told me you wanted to make the mastermind focus around mentoring these women over the next three years—and it’s a year-long program, but people come in for 12 months at a time—I was so excited to share this with people. 

I’m like, “Who can I help? Who needs this? Who not only needs it, but wants it? Who’s longing for that in their lives?”

We’re super excited. 

We’re about to head off to our retreat right here in Sonoma. A lot of our clients in the mastermind are coming to that retreat. 

So, if you’re listening to this and you’re curious, if you’ve been thinking, “Man, I want this in my life,” and you’re curious about our mastermind and mentorship program, you can go to www.wayofthemuse.com/mastermind and apply right there on that page. Or you can reach out to our team at support@wayofthemuse.com and just say you’re curious, and we’d be happy to share more.

Thank you, Gigi, for sharing and peeling back the curtain a little bit on what a mentor has been in your life and how you’ve thought about this process of mentoring me and others. 

I think it’s a really unique conversation. I’m glad we had it.

Gigi: Yeah, me too. Thank you, thank you.

Makena: All right. See you next time.

Gigi: See you next time.