Makena: Hello, everyone.

Gigi: Hello.

Makena: We are talking about a fun topic today, which is babies or business: Can I really have it all?

Gigi: Yes. That’s a good one. That’s one you get a lot in your age group, right?

Makena: Yes, and it’s one that I personally felt challenged by a couple of years ago when I was really approaching the age at which I thought, “Okay, it’s time to start really thinking about this. Am I going to have kids?” I always thought I wanted them, but then I went through this whole process of questioning that. 

So, we thought it would be interesting to have this dialogue from the perspective of someone who has been in that question or was in that question previously. And then also from…

…with you, Gigi, who has five kids. What was your approach to this question?

Gigi: I didn’t think about this question. I started very young, and then I just kept having babies. I integrated them into my life as I went along. So we can talk about that.

Makena: Yes, five kids over 20 years—very different perspective, very different approach. And I grew up with that. Yet, for whatever reason, I decided to wait longer, and time just kind of went by. 

We were planning to start sooner, and then COVID happened. We felt like we lost a couple of years there. We wanted to travel more and do some different things.

Like I said, I really came to this point of, “Okay, now I feel like it’s time to start thinking about this.” 

And then I went, “Well, do I really want kids, or have I just always said I want kids?” 

I had to sit with that question: Was this just a default response, or is it what I really want?

Ultimately, I did find that, yes, I definitely want kids.

But what would you say, Gigi? 

I know we had someone on at one point for an on-air coaching session, and you asked her a question that I think was really helpful for people to start looking at whether they want children or not.

Gigi: Yes, and I think the first question is, “Do you want kids?” You really have to ask yourself that. I think sometimes we have an intuitive sense—we really know, yes. And sometimes I see women say no, and then they find the right partner, and they say yes. I do think it sometimes has to do with, “Do I have the right partner?” “Do I have the right person to do this with?” 

The question I asked her was, she had a lot of things she wanted to do that were important. One of them was earning a certain amount of money. I said, “Okay, if you had all of those things in place, would you have children?” And her answer was absolutely yes. 

So, for me, that’s when you really know, and then we need to look and see, “Okay, how do we create those parameters that are important to you?” Maybe you can’t create all of them right away, but knowing that creates a plan for you. Then, how do we set you up so you can stop putting the pause button on and go for it?

I’ve helped many women make that choice, and I don’t think any of them have regretted it. 

There are many children in the world because women came to me hesitant, and I said, “Do you really want them?” If they did, I said, “Go for it.” 

And for some of those women, they didn’t have partners at the time. I encouraged them, if they were at an age, to figure out a system to have a baby. Then, they found a partner afterward.

Makena: I love that. There’s so much I want to dig into there. We might meander a bit in this episode because there are a lot of different directions this could go. People are sitting in many different places. 

By the way, some of you listening may have made the choice not to have kids and may feel clear and good about that, and that’s fabulous. It’s about tuning into whatever’s right for you.

We wanted to have this conversation for those who are maybe on the fence or struggling with the question, especially around career. 

You did mention, Gigi, that some people are struggling because they’re not sure if they’re with the right person. Is that what you’re saying? There’s a question mark in their minds, and they don’t know if they want kids. Then, often, that changes when they meet the right person.

Gigi: Yes. I think that’s an important question to ask. 

The person you have a child with—if you’re in a relationship and you’re not sure if it’s the relationship you’ll stay in or if you’ll grow together—that’s a serious question. 

Whoever that person is, they’ll be your partner and the parent of your child.

Makena: I do think it’s really an important question though, like you’re talking about. If you’re in a relationship with someone and you’re really questioning, “Do I want kids?” And if you’re honest with yourself, the answer is, “Yes, I want kids, but I’m not 100 percent sure if this is the person I want to have kids with.”

That’s really important to look at, to separate those two, because I think what happens is people merge them together, and they’re in this questioning. But if they’re deeply honest with themselves, they might be clear on one and not the other. 

So if that’s the case, you want to separate those two questions and say, “Yes, I want kids,” if you’re clear about that. “No, I’m not sure if this is the partner.” And then really see, in terms of what do you want long term? And of course, it depends on your age and if there’s urgency in the matter in terms of really getting started. 

That can be a really difficult thing if you’re in a relationship with someone, you love them, and you’re questioning this. But you really want to look at the long term, because unfortunately, as women, we do have a timeline, right?

We do have to think about these things and really consider, in the long term of your life, the choice to have kids is a much bigger choice than whether to stay with that partner or not. So that’s one.

But then for the people who are more in the situation of, okay, they’re with a partner, they’ve been questioning it because, and I do feel like for a lot of women, there’s either a financial consideration—this happens for men too; I hear this one a lot for men—but there’s a financial consideration or, for me, it was really that I felt like I was hitting my stride in my career.

I was like, “Oh, I feel like my career is starting to really take off in a different way. I feel really aligned with what I’m doing.” 

Even with my modeling and things like that, which has a very physical component to it—modeling is, you know, not that I’m trying to be a size two or anything like that, but still, birthing a baby is a whole process and changes your body. And there’s a time where things are going to be different.

So I really struggled with this: Is this going to totally take me out of my game in terms of my career? 

And that sounds… when you put it that way, it kind of sounds shallow, and maybe it is a little bit, but it was also a real consideration for me. I worked hard at my career for many years and decades. I don’t know if I was truly questioning whether I wanted kids.

I knew deep down I did, but I just struggled with the question of, “Can I have it all?” I think that’s a good way to put it. Can I really have it all?

Gigi: So, you talked about several different things there. Do you want to go into the one about your career? Do you want to talk about that first?

Makena: Yeah. What do you see there? I mean, obviously I’ve worked through this, but if someone else were coming to you in a similar position, what would you say?

Gigi: Again, what is it that you’re hesitant about regarding your career? What is it that you think you’re not going to be able to do?

Is it going to make your life more complex in the way your day-to-day goes? Absolutely. Did it do that when you got your dog, Chloe?

Makena: Yes, definitely.

Gigi: For a short amount of time, it did, right? And remember I told you when you were thinking about having kids, I said, “Get a dog first,” right?

Because then you started to see what it was like to take care of something other than yourself. 

And then you saw the joy she brought into your life, and you wouldn’t have it any other way. 

Not to relate children to dogs, but in some ways, it’s the same.

It’s that initial period when you’re thinking and questioning, going through all these reasons, like you were with modeling, which again is one perspective. 

I believe that if you want to continue to grow your career, yes, you’re going to have to set up systems, whether it’s childcare or other support, so you can focus on your career.

And is that possible? I think it’s really possible. I think a lot of people are doing it in the world. 

You have to look and see, again, what’s the lifestyle, the system that you want when you have children. As you know, I traveled with my kids. They were with me. They had a nanny, and that’s how I designed my life.

That’s what worked for me because I would have never been a great stay-at-home mother all the time in a million years. That’s not my calling. 

I love my children and wanted to have kids, but I also wanted the freedom to build and grow my business and to do what I wanted to do in the world. That’s how I set it up.

Was it always easy? Absolutely not. Through ups and downs in my life, it’s been very challenging, but I can’t imagine going through those challenges without having my children as part of the reason why I’m doing it now.

Makena: Yes. Looking at what you want there instead of maybe what you don’t want, kind of like you’re saying, is a really great place to begin. 

If it all worked out, if your career continued to thrive and grow and you did have children, if that’s something you feel deep down you do want, then what would that be? How would you love that to go?

And then really seeing how do you start to move in that direction, organize around that. 

The other thing I’ve seen a lot and you’ve talked about is that having a child is kind of a forcing function. 

A lot of times it’s where people’s careers do take off because they have to, or people figure things out they never thought they would figure out.

Their life begins to organize around the fact that this baby is showing up and there’s a due date, and you have to figure it out.

Gigi: Yes. And that is the stepping over, the stepping through the unknown, right? Just having faith and commitment because it’s something you really want. 

Then, like I said, going, “Well, let me think this through if I can. What would make this transition supportive for me in my career? How do I want to grow?” If you can do that ahead of time, that’s great. People can’t always do that.

Those of us who had our children and then figured it out as we went, we know that you just figure it out. You figure it out. 

I was very blessed to have a nanny and everything, but there are ways to get support from family. If you start thinking of it as, instead of a problem, what are the solutions for me to create this in my life? As much as possible, set up the systems. 

The other thing about life is that life is unpredictable, and I think that’s part of the thing with having children. We want it to be so perfect, boxed up, and know how it’s going to work, but it’s one of those things in life where you have no idea. No idea.

Makena: Yes, we think we want it to be perfect and boxed up, but the reality is we probably don’t. I mean, maybe some people do, and again, if that’s the choice for you, then that’s the choice for you. 

But for those of you who are thinking, “I would, if it all was working, have children. I’m just struggling with this question of career or having it all,” then in that there’s…

There’s this piece of, we think we want it all perfect, but people also get bored, I see, and they get set in their ways. This is from what I see with people—and I haven’t had my own children yet, we’re in the process of trying—but it shakes up their world in the best possible way. It breaks them out of something. 

A dog was a tiny sliver of a glimpse into what that was going to be like. Like you said, it was the perfect thing for us to get the dog a few years ago. You really encouraged me when I was thinking about it.

What was so profound about that—and I don’t think any other example would have really worked other than a pet, an animal—was that she was more responsibility. 

But like you said, the way our lives expanded and grew, and our love expanded and grew, was so much. You could never explain that to someone who’s never owned an animal they really loved, just like I know I haven’t had a child yet. But that’s the same thing parents say to me, which I’m sure is just exponentially even more, that you can’t imagine how it’s going to expand you and expand your life in so many ways.

So, yes, it was more responsibility, and it did shake things up in a certain way, but it added so much. That was helpful for me when I was going through the process of thinking about having kids, to have that experience to fall back on and go, “Okay, I know what that is like to some degree, and I know this is going to add so much depth and richness in ways that I can’t even predict.”

Gigi: Yes. And with your career, you have no idea exactly how you want to go. Or if you do and you really know how you want to grow, then what systems and processes can you start putting into place now? What are the ways you can get support? Is there something you have to do financially? 

Again, it’s not to overdo it, but how much would it take per month to have the kind of support you need? What could you do right now to set some money aside for the next couple of years so you have that support? 

Think about that instead of thinking about problems.

The sleep thing is so funny because we think with kids, “Oh, of course, there’s going to be sleep deprivation with new babies.” But you know, I’m older, and I lose a lot of sleep now, and I don’t have any kids anymore. 

Again, it’s about not creating all these worries. You can look at your concerns and see how you can set yourself up as much as possible, but don’t overindulge in them. That’s my personal opinion. Everyone’s different, and like you said, if people don’t want children, that’s totally okay. There are many nieces, nephews, and even animals in the world that need your love and support. But if you do want children, then have the courage to step through the fear and go for it.

Think it through ahead of time, but absolutely go for it, because most people would tell you that it’s very enriching and adds so much to your life.

Makena: Yes, and I really see that it’s important to—it all begins with that simple question you asked at the beginning of the episode, which is, if things were working or if you had the right partner, if all the pieces were in place, would you want children? If the answer is no, then you have your answer. If the answer is yes, then you also have your answer.

That “yes,” if it does come to that, is the key piece to begin with, because everything else comes from that choice. It comes from that clarity. 

If you start trying to work out all the things first, like “How would I do it? How would I…” then it’s confusing and muddling, and it’s not really going to get you where you want to go. If you come from the yes, then it creates a certain energy where solutions start to show up. Does that make sense? From that clear decision, you go, “Okay, how?” Or, “How do I want to set this up? What kind of support do I need?”

And it’s like that quote you love, right? 

The “Until one is committed” quote by W.H. Murray and Goethe, the one that goes, “Until one is committed, there is hesitancy, the chance to draw back, always ineffectiveness.” Then it goes on to say, “Whatever you can do, or dream you can, begin it. Boldness has genius, power, and magic in it.” That’s much longer, but it talks about how when we make a choice, when we make a decision… then Providence moves too. 

Things start to happen in the world, in the universe. Synchronicities show up, and things come out of the blue. Gigi, I know this is your favorite quote, but it is the same thing with having babies, just like anything. It’s about coming from the choice of yes, I do want them, and then everything else can organize around that.

Gigi: Yes, absolutely.

And then I wanted to touch on the modeling because, again, that’s a perception, a way of looking at things, and you could find all kinds of evidence for that if you talk to people. 

But the truth is, I told you, look at Heidi Klum. Look at her career. Look at most models—you see out there they have had babies. I hate to tell you, unless they’re young and in their teens or early 20s, all the supermodels have children. 

Again, that’s a mindset. It might even make you have photoshoots with your baby—you never know. If you go with that energy of what you want to do and say, “This is going to work out, and everyone’s going to benefit; it’s going to grow me, it’s going to be exciting,” then you just never know what can come out of that.

Makena: Yes, and I’ll just share my experience from getting clear. We got fully clear probably about a year and a half ago, maybe two years ago—about a year and a half ago—that it was like, “Okay, yes, I’m clear. I want kids. We’re going to move forward on this.” I had some things I wanted to do with my health first, so I spent about a year doing that. Then we just started trying recently.

But in that sense, becoming clear and really declaring that, life did start to organize around that in many ways. Different things showed up, and like you’re saying, my vision started to change as well. 

Where before it was, “How will I model and have children?” now it’s, “I want to model with my children.” That is one of my visions. I see having a family brand and doing different things together. 

I’ve talked to my spirit babies out in the universe and said, “You better be up for this because this is part of the deal,” which is hilarious—we’ll see how they feel about it. But that’s a desire of mine.

So it’s been really fun to see. And now I’m so excited about having children. But I really am grateful that I honored the process of sitting with the question too, because I feel like that was really important for me.

Versus some people just know, and they’re ready, and they know, and that’s great. But for me, I needed to wrestle with it. I needed to give myself that space to go, “Do I or don’t I?” 

The main reason I wanted to record this episode is that I see a lot of women wrestle with it and then sort of default into the decision not to because they never got clear. And that’s a tough one.

Because sometimes they go on to, I think on some level, regret that. And I just would love to see women having the tools to ask these deep questions in such a way that they can come to clarity while they are in the window where that’s a possibility for them, and really see how they want to approach that. 

Gigi: Yes, that’s a question that, when I led workshops for many, many years, I would always ask if a woman was thinking about it. I would say, “Hey, if you didn’t have them, would you regret it?” And that’s a good thing to ask yourself too. 

Many times it was yes, and then I would just say, “Then you need to get out there and have a kid. That’s all there is to it. You need to go for it.” 

Step through your fear, step through the unknowing, and have faith. See the best outcome, and set yourself up in a way, like we talked about, where as much as you can, you set it up so you feel good about it. But then again, relax around it, because that’s the other thing I see women get so stuck on.

They do decide maybe to do it, and then it has to be this way, look this certain way. And you know, nature and life are unpredictable, and you can say what you want, but then you need to relax and be receptive to whatever way and how it comes.

Makena: That’s probably one of the hardest parts about this process. And I’m guessing not every woman who’s trying to get clear is like this—there are many different reasons and types of women. 

But for me, I’ll speak for myself. I’m someone who, in the past, really liked control, predictability, planning, and all of these things. I’ve unwound a lot of that, but those pieces still come in.

So it’s this thing in life that there’s no way to predict, no way to control. There’s none of that in it. And that’s really scary. 

But I also intuitively know that’s what’s going to be the most liberating thing about it. It’s going to shake something up and grow me as a person in a way that I wouldn’t be able to experience in any other way.

Gigi: Yes. I mean, the two things in life we have no control over, right? Birth and death. Absolutely. So we have no idea. No idea.

Makena: And that’s scary, but also, there’s something really beautiful about that. Something really exciting if it’s the choice you make for yourself.

So I want to touch a little bit more on the idea of envisioning what it is you want, because we’re talking about, “Can I really have it all?”

How can someone start to dream up what having it all means for them? In terms of having a family, I mean, that’s maybe even a great question to start with: “If I really had it all, what would that be?”

Gigi: Yes. what was the question I asked you in the car? Remember when you came up with the family brand idea? What was the question? 

We were creating a program, and I asked you something, and then it just spilled out. I can’t remember what it was.

Makena: Yes, that was when we were designing our Feminine Business Program

Gigi: What is your vision that you want? What’s the lifestyle, what’s the vision you want with your family? How do you want it to be? 

For me, I wanted to still continue to travel and work. I wanted to have my kids with me sometimes. So I didn’t want to travel for just a few days at a time. I like traveling for three months at a time, and I could do that in our business because of the nature of our work.

So in that, we designed something where we could do it. 

And the same thing for you—you spilled out and said, “I want a family brand,” and you saw how you wanted your days to go. That’s it. 

How do you want your days to go? Where do you want to have space and time?

It’s so important in your partnership to see how you’re going to stay connected, because that’s probably also a fear—what’s going to happen to our relationship when we have another person in the relationship? 

I think it’s really important to think that through and talk it through with your partner before you have children. What will we commit to? And maybe not in the first three months, because the first three months are all-consuming—maybe even the first six months. 

But still, after the first three months, what will we commit to? Will it still be going out on our date nights? Or will it be bringing a sitter in so we have time together? 

Really planning that out, I think, is super important.

Makena: Absolutely, yes. And a lot of that—I’m remembering now—was when we were designing The Way of Feminine Business program.

That’s one of our self-study programs, and we can link to it in the show notes. 

In that, we have a whole process that you take people through, and we were designing it, so you were testing it out on me. 

It’s really about looking at what’s the lifestyle you want, what’s the rhythm you want, what’s the environment—just all these different pieces, really visioning in a different way, maybe a deeper way than a lot of people have done. That’s when you actually used my vision as the example in the program.

I saw it later and thought, “Oh, look, there’s my vision right there!” So you guys can go in and read all about it.

I think that process, like you’re saying—of “If I really had it all” and then looking at these different areas—starts to make it exciting. Of course, it’s not going to be exactly what we see necessarily—things are going to be different. But it starts to put your mind and attention in the direction of what you want again, instead of focusing on the challenges, the problems, and the reasons why it can’t work.

Gigi: Yes, and allowing yourself to really dream it, like in a perfect scenario, how would it be? 

If it’s a financial issue with childcare, which is expensive, can you set it up with a family member and ask, “In the first three months, can you come over for half a day every two weeks?” 

Start asking people, because then people know, and you’ll have a support system when you have your baby. I think that’s brilliant—friends too. 

Ask your friends if there’s a way they can support you, or if you want your family to be part of it, letting them know that. 

Normally, families want to help, but once the baby is there, they don’t know what to do or how to help.

Makena: The financial piece we touched on, but we haven’t gone super deep into it. I think we’ve mostly covered it from the woman’s side in terms of, if you know you want the baby, then you work it out. You go for that and you see how you want to create that. 

What if there are concerns on the father’s side, the potential father’s side, around having a child financially? 

I’m remembering when we were first early on in our relationship, Sunny and I, he had that around getting married. He was like, “I want to be in a certain financial position before we get married, before we get engaged.” 

He just felt like in order to step into really being in that chapter of life—not that he was necessarily at that stage of providing, but he really wanted to be in a place. He had this certain idea in his mind. 

I’ve seen this happen in relationships or in marriages or partnerships, where maybe the woman is clear she wants a child, and the man is like, “Well, we need to be in a certain place financially.” 

So what about in that scenario? Is there anything you see there for someone in terms of, if you’re clear and your partner is hesitating? I guess that’s a whole other question, but…

Gigi: Yes, that’s something we could go into for a while. One thing is to really share, like if you really want a baby, and you want it by a certain time, how can you both make that happen? You can ask your partner, “This is what I want. How do you see we could do this?” Allow him or her to talk through it, and maybe also talk through concerns—what are the concerns?

Sometimes, if it’s early in the game, you can make a game out of it. If the partner feels like, “Hey, I want to have a certain amount of money,” then you can say, “Okay, let’s make a game of it for the next year, or year and a half—18 months—and save that amount of money. Then, I really want to have the child.”

Because it’s kind of like the question of, “Do I want to have a baby or not?” 

If you want children, you’re never going to have everything perfect. And if you don’t put a timeline on it, it will just be years and years and years. People keep stalling, thinking they’re going to do something, but finally, it’s got to be, “We’re going to go for this. If we both want this, then this is what’s important to me, this is what’s important to you.” You give it a shot and say, “Let’s get you in that position in the next two years. If you’re not in that position, then I still want to go for it.”

Makena: Timelines are one of the most powerful pieces of coaching.

You’ve helped me with this so many times, and I see it with our clients as well, in all different areas of life. But especially in any area where you feel like you’re trying to move something forward or make a decision, and it’s just dragging out—putting a timeline on it is huge.

That timeline could be for yourself, for getting clear. If you’re still grappling with that, it’s like, “Give yourself a certain window of time. I’m going to take the next 90 days, or however long it’s going to be, and really sit with that, go through different scenarios, and allow myself to be in the process.”

Or it could be, like you’re saying, around a financial game or something like that with your partner. It just puts so much clarity into things so it’s not dragging on. 

And again, this is one of those areas in life where there really is a timeline, in the sense that if you’re getting into your mid to late 30s or 40s, you do need to make that decision in order to more easily conceive, carry, and birth a baby.

There are many options for people having babies later with IVF and other methods, but we want to give you, ideally, the most options possible to make it as easy as possible.

Gigi: Yes, and I think it’s the way you approach your partner. I also see sometimes that people are so worried about having a child and all the different aspects and things you have to do, that it becomes almost a negative conversation that starts to happen all the time. 

Think about it—if somebody came to you and they were telling you all the issues or reasons or what they were worried about, constantly talking to you like that, you wouldn’t feel very inclined to go for it, right? Because it would feel like, “My gosh, how is this going to change my life? It’s going to be issues all the time.” 

So I really highly recommend that when you choose, you choose it from a place of “This is going to be a positive, amazing thing in your life.” That’s the framework from which you talk about it with your partner. 

No matter what details have to be handled, these are just part of the things like when we build a house, right? We have to put in the foundation, choose our decorations, and do all these things to make it a fun, engaging, and awesome project. 

Instead of thinking, “I don’t know, I see my friend and she’s having a hard time,” create your world the way you want to create it as much as possible.

And again, we never know. Life is unpredictable. 

But think it through in a way that it’s going to add to your life, be meaningful, and be amazing. It’s going to help you and your partner become even closer with the right systems in place.

Makena: I love that idea. I would say we’ve really been doing this even in terms of our life and just really talking about how language is so powerful, right? 

The words we use are powerful because they’re informing you. The words we speak are literally then going back into our unconscious minds, and they are creating our reality. 

And then also, some people believe, going out into the world, the universe, or even if you’re speaking that as a prayer or whatever that might be. 

So the words we’re using help to create our reality. And so if you are, like you’re saying, talking about it as a problem, bringing it to someone that way or talking about it as stress, then that’s what you’re creating, versus really looking at what’s exciting about it, how it could be amazing, how it could enrich your life. 

I even took on, in the last few months—and I think this came partially from you and also from Sunny, and I’ve had a couple of other people reflect it to me—that I have a lot of physical things I’ve experienced in my lifetime, some that I’m still working through. 

In that, I started to really believe that pregnancy is going to heal a lot of those things and that it’s going to be this really beautiful time, and I’m going to feel great.

I started learning recently—one of our clients, who’s a nurse practitioner, told me that the baby actually gives you stem cells when they’re in the womb. You get stem cells from your baby, and stem cells are some of the most healing things out there. That’s what small children have, which allows them to grow and heal so effectively. 

So I was like, “Wow, that’s even more proof.” I started looking for all the proof that this is going to be the most amazing physical time in my life. Not only that, but it’s going to spark all kinds of healing and regeneration for me. And that’s been such a great frame to go into this with.

That’s an example of choosing a belief. Because I could find evidence for the contrary, of course. I could find evidence for either one.

Gigi: Yes, of course. Like I said, I was just oblivious. I didn’t even think about those things. I thought, “Another child is coming into the place.” Take my baby, travel with it, and just integrate it into my life and business immediately. 

Again, we had a very different kind of life, but we also designed it that way, right?

Makena: Yes, beautiful. I think that’s a great start to this conversation around having a family and really choosing what’s right for you and then creating it the way you want to create it. 

So thank you for sharing your life experience, Gigi, very much in this arena. And I’m so excited.

Gigi: Yes, I can’t wait for my grandbaby. Five now, so yes.

Makena: Five so far. I’ll have the next one, so it’ll be six, and then many more to come. Mariah wants several more.

Gigi: Yes, many more.

Makena: All right, everyone, we’ll see you in the next episode. See you next time.

Gigi: Yes, thank you. Thanks, Makena.