Makena: Hello. 

Gigi: Hello. It’s the holiday season. Do, do, do, do. It’s our time. 

Makena: I love your singing.

Gigi: Thank you. I’m going to sing again in this podcast. 

Makena: We’re going to have to start opening every episode with a song. I love it. 

Gigi: How was your holiday?

Makena: Very good. I love this time. 

Gigi: We saw each other, right?

Makena: Yes, yes, we did in Nashville. And now I’m heading to Sedona, leading a little retreat there for some of our clients, and looking forward to all the fun holiday family things coming up. 

Gigi: It’s super exciting. 

Makena: I’m also really looking forward to today’s podcast episode because this is a topic we’ve talked about a lot just between mother and daughter. And as I’m heading towards having kids of my own, I’ve been curious about your perspectives on it. It’s also one we hear from a lot of women–this topic of mom guilt.

Mom guilt shows up in a lot of different ways, and we’re going to talk about some of those today and why it’s so important to, as you’ve always put it, Gigi, “put the oxygen mask on yourself first.”

Why is that important? First of all, what do you mean by that? Some people get that right away. Some people might not travel very much, so maybe you want to describe what putting the oxygen mask on yourself first means.

Gigi: Yeah. You know, I started saying this, I think, 35 years ago, when I would work with women. They would put themselves on the back burner, and this is especially true when we become mothers and we’re busy–whether with our own careers, businesses, or whatever else.

What I mean by that is, if you’re flying on a plane and the oxygen mask drops, they tell you to put it on yourself first before helping the child next to you. And the reason it’s important is that if you don’t, you won’t be alive to help the child next to you.

It’s a very powerful statement, but it’s so true. 

When we don’t take care of ourselves first, we don’t have the energy, the vitality–our battery pack is low, our cup isn’t full. We don’t have the energy to take care of ourselves, and then we don’t have the energy to take care of our children and families.

It’s so counterintuitive to many people, which is funny, right? You’d think it would just make sense.

Makena: Has mom guilt always been a thing? This question is just coming to me in this moment. 

You became a mother for the first time at 18, right? And so, that was quite some time ago. 

Do you remember feeling mom guilt back then? Was it as big of a thing as it is now? 

Because I think it’s so rampant these days.

Gigi: I think mom guilt has always been a thing. Yes, I mean, through centuries. 

And I think you’re right–there is a distinction that now it has become a big thing.

Of course, as mothers, we often feel guilty about things, but the conversation around it has never been as big as it is now.

Makena: Do you remember experiencing that early on yourself? Personally… 

Gigi: Feeling guilty? 

Makena: Yeah, like feeling, “Oh, I need to put my kids ahead of myself,” or “I need to sacrifice.” Did you feel that pressure?

Gigi: I think it was a natural thing as a young mother that I would do because it’s what I saw my mother do. So I think that’s also how it’s passed on.

And as I developed and as I went into personal development and I really, really changed my life–and also was incredibly busy–that I saw the power and the reason to take care of myself first. 

So I could take care of and have the energy for my family and then also for the travel and the business and everything of us growing.

So I think if I wouldn’t have gone into personal development, absolutely, I think it would have been a direction that I would have really, really gone.

Makena: I think it’s worth saying because not everyone who’s listening to this episode has listened to other episodes of ours. 

Do you want to just share how many kids you have?

Gigi: I have five kids. And so, as you can imagine, as we’ll talk about a little while later, of course, I’ve had guilt with my children and challenges in that way. 

But the way I designed my career and life early on allowed me, for many years, to not have that guilt because I set up a world where that just wasn’t part of my conversation.

This is not what I did.

Makena: And you’ve got a lot of support and systems.

Gigi: Yeah, exactly. We can talk about that.

Makena: I think everybody listening probably knows, but I’m one of those five children. So yeah, we are a mother-daughter team.

Okay, so what’s one way that women can start–like a baby step that women can take–to start putting the oxygen mask on themselves first?

Gigi: Well, again, as we’ve talked about in many episodes, it’s finding what nourishes you. 

Make a list of eight things that really nourish you. 

And again, that’s something that makes you truly unwind–something where you really stop your world.

You feel like you get done with it, and you feel a lot more energy. 

And sometimes, that’s very different from self-care. It’s more about things that you enjoy.

For you, Makena, what is it?

Makena: Yeah, we’ve shared this before, which is reading fiction books. I just zoom through them–and fantasy books specifically. I can’t seem to keep them in the house fast enough to get through them.

I’m like, “I don’t have one right now. I finished one the other day. Another one’s not coming until Tuesday.” I’m like, “No!” 

Because that’s how I unwind, it really, really is.

If life feels overwhelming, I just need to sit for 20 minutes with my fiction book, and the world disappears. My body relaxes, and I really get this reset.

Gigi: For moms and young moms, if you’re taking care of your kids, your home, or you’re a stay-at-home mother, and they say, “I can’t do that; there’s so much to do.” 

I really encourage you to do it during nap time. Like you said, if it’s 20 minutes and then you run around and do all the other things you need to do, just that energy you’ll build there will last you and really make you feel so much more energized during the day than if you just put your kids down for a nap and then you run around and clean the house or do whatever you need to do.

And this is true, wherever you are. If you have a career, a business, or whatever it is, take that little bit of extra time. And that can even be your lunchtime during the day, maybe.

Or, if that’s for you–like for me–like, super nourishing for me are hot baths. They’re actually when I get out, I feel like a different person than when I got in. It’s really nourishing.

So you have to find what that is for you. And if you’re super busy, then you’ve got to find little bits of time because they add up over time.

Makena: Yeah. I mean, that’s how I started because I was so busy a few years ago and just overly packed my schedule. I had a big pattern around that, and we were running our business, and I had set my life up that way.

So, I started with lunch breaks in the middle of the day, as you said–just a short break while I was eating. I would read that fiction book, and it really gave me this reset, even if I just did it for 15 or 20 minutes. 

It just–again–everything in my body relaxed, my mind let go, and it really unwound me.

And a distinction around nourishers is that it can be anything, but it’s really something that you do for you. It’s something that unwinds you. It’s not going and doing something–usually not doing something with other people or for other people or anything like that. So really seeing what is that.

Gigi: I remember you used to – when you were still living in Austin. You would put your bathing suit on for a few minutes, go lay in the sun, and read your fiction books or your fantasy books.

Makena: Yeah, absolutely. Sometimes, it wasn’t as much of a nourisher if I did it this way, but I would do that while I was sending texts for our business or, doing a little bit of work. 

I’d go lay out there and get some work done, but I would also lay in the sun and get that vitamin D. That was super nourishing as well.

Gigi: Finding ways to slip those things in while you’re doing other things–that’s a crazy thing. Because we think of it as, “Oh no, I need this big, big stretch of time.” 

And that’s just not the way it works. If we’re super busy, there are times in life when you can do that, and there are seasons in life where you just can’t.

Makena: So one thing we see a lot is moms who have guilt about leaving their children. 

In other words, maybe they want to go on a little trip, like a bachelorette party, or maybe they just want to go out for the evening while they’re breastfeeding or managing everything else. 

And they think, “Oh no, I can’t leave my kids. I can’t leave my kids.”

So, of course, we want to say, first of all, with this episode, there are many different parenting styles and many different philosophies. You have to go with what feels right for you. 

But if it really is draining your batteries to a degree where you’re not able to be there as your full, nourished self for your children, that’s where we want to bring some of these topics in.

We want you to really take a look and see if maybe there are some shifts or a different approach you might want to try. 

So we’ll share our perspectives–or specifically, Gigi’s perspectives, since she has the experience with motherhood here. Take whatever serves you and leave the rest.

Gigi: I think it’s really important that we let you know, the listeners, again, we’re not giving you advice that you should do it this way.

It’s just one way. And if it doesn’t align for you, it’s completely okay. It’s–and, you know, what I’m sharing is from my experience, and your experience may be very, very different. So we’re not trying to make someone get something here.

But I think if you listen to the episode, maybe you can find one or two little tweaks that would assist you just in terms of, if you are having any kind of guilt, to maybe learn how to eliminate that or really not add more to your life at this point.

Makena: Absolutely. So what would you say to a mom who’s feeling that guilt around leaving her kids for any stretch of time? How can she approach that maybe a little bit differently?

Gigi: Well, I think, first of all, I would say, why are you feeling guilty about that? Like, what is it?

I know that for some of our clients, when they travel–we seem to attract the women who travel a lot, right? 

Some of them, small children, go on these trips, or they’re thinking about taking a trip, and then they feel like, well–they go on the trip, and then they feel bad about going on the trip.

And so I would really break it down and say, why do you feel guilty? 

Normally, it’s because, “My kids, they miss me.” And when I talk to them on the phone, they’re like, “Mommy, come home.” 

That’s what kids do, especially if they feel you have any guilt.

That’s what I would do. First, ask what the guilt is about, right? 

Makena: If the guilt is like, “My kids miss me,” or “They’re not going to be okay,” what do you mean by that? What would be–can you think of an example?

Gigi: So, like, “My kids miss me,” or, “I think they’re worried because maybe the kids feel alone.” Like, when you’re not there, maybe they’re going to school, and they don’t have you there. 

What it is is that somehow we put ourselves in a situation where, if we’re not the ones doing it, then somehow our kids aren’t going to feel strong in some way.

And so I really look at how you can set it up in your life. If you are going to take a trip and you’re going to be gone for a while, how do you set it up so your kids feel supported, and you feel supported, and you don’t make it into a big deal? 

Because that is one of the biggest breakdowns, I think that moms get into guilt.

And then, of course, the children feel that, and the children are going to act on that. 

Does that make sense?

Makena: Yeah, you often say, like, leading up to the trip, the moms will kind of have a certain energy, or they’ll say certain kinds of things. Can you describe that a little bit?

Gigi: Yeah. So leading up to the trip, it might be, “Honey, you know, oh, Mommy’s leaving. I’m sorry. I’ll be back.” 

And in the tone, there’s already this energy–this feeling of the kid being like, “Oh, my mommy’s going.”

Instead of going, “Hey, you know what? I’m taking a trip, and I’m going to be gone for a few days, but, you know, either Daddy’s here, and you guys are going to do this, this, and this. It’s going to be a lot of fun. And, of course, I’m so going to miss you, and it’s going to be so okay because I’ll be back in a few days, and then we’ll go and do this together.”

So, there are two very different tones. Do you get that?

Makena: Yeah, and I even think it could be fun to create a different narrative around it–take it a step further and go like, “I’m going to go on this trip. We’re going to miss each other, but the fun thing about missing each other is that it’s just a feeling in your body. And then when we see each other again, it feels so good–it feels even better, right?”

Or, “I’m going to go away, and I’m going to get so refreshed and recharged that I’m going to come back, and I’m going to be–yeah, like something like that.” 

Getting them invested in this, like, “Okay, you are going to have these feelings, but it’s going to be even better when we see each other again.”

Gigi: Absolutely. That’s beautiful, Makena. Really beautiful.

And so, when you start to have those kinds of conversations with your kids, it’s not something bad that’s happening or something unnatural that’s happening. Kids won’t know any different. 

You guys were raised like this. You were raised with a nanny. We traveled. You stayed at home sometimes. I would travel to Europe; you would be home. Sometimes, we’d travel together for three months at a time.

And I don’t think–now, this might not be completely true–but I think most of the time, you felt pretty cared for. Of course, we missed each other, but I never put it on you all like, “Oh, I’m so sorry.”

Makena: Yeah. Absolutely. As you said, there were also systems set up to make sure that we felt supported and that we were good there.

So, that’s just really thinking through with your partner or whoever’s caring for the kids and how that’s set up. 

And, again, I think that you feel settled as a mom, and they feel settled–as much as can be, right? It’s going to be out of their routine, but you can talk them through all of that.

Gigi: Exactly. When your child says, “Mommy, I miss you.” 

And you say, “That’s okay. It’s all right to miss me. And I’m going to be back.” Or, like you mentioned, “Hey, Mommy is here, she’s getting stronger, more relaxed. And so when we get back together, we can have more fun together.”

So, you can change the context. 

If you feel in yourself like, “Oh,” then your child is going to feel that. But if you feel like, “I’m doing this for me and my family, and I feel great about it,” then the kid will feed off that energy as well.

It doesn’t mean they’re not going to say they miss you, though.

Makena: And most people won’t go either, right? They don’t go on the trip because they feel like, “I can’t leave my kids,” or they don’t go to the dinner because they feel like, “They’re going to miss me.”

And I think that when they do go, they feel guilty about going, like you’re talking about, and then that energy goes into the kids. And that affects them, and it affects the mom.

And we’re talking about mom guilt specifically. I don’t know–I’m sure some dads have this as well–but we’re just speaking in terms of, you see it more commonly with moms.

There’s another story that you told me recently, and I loved it, from our mastermind program, Wealthy World Changers. 

We have a lot of moms that work with us. Can you talk about that story?

Gigi: There were a couple of moms talking about. They were traveling, and they were going to the retreat. 

And they were feeling like, “Oh, you know, it’s what, eight days or nine days?” Especially the ones that come from Asia, right? It’s probably a good two weeks for them, especially if they stop off somewhere else.

And finally, I just said to them, “You know, ladies, your kids need a break from you.” And they were just like, “Oh my gosh.”

Because a lot of times, kids have a lot of fun when you’re gone, right? And if you’re there and you’re not happy anyway, or you’re longing to be at the retreat, they’re going to feel that as well.

So, you can think of it as this time for you to nourish yourself and give yourself what you need to feed your soul and energy. So when you go back, you’re a much better mother, a much better partner, and so much better in your business.

Many of the women that have worked with me off and on for years know this. 

They’re like, “When is the next retreat?” They have no issues anymore–no more mom guilt. 

Makena: Absolutely. So, let’s talk about moms feeling like they can’t ask for support from their partners–or their partners are supporting in some ways, but they feel like they need more support.

We see this in all kinds of relationship dynamics. I especially see it in dynamics where maybe the partner is the main breadwinner because there’s even more of this sense where the mom feels like, “Well, if that’s their role, then my role is to take care of the kids. So, I can’t–or shouldn’t–ask for more support.”

And that could be support from your partner, or it could be hiring support, whatever form that takes. 

But what would you say to someone who is struggling with this? Like, how do I get support? I’m feeling overwhelmed. Should I even ask?

Gigi: I think I’ll just start with the one where, if you are a full-time mom, or you’re working part-time–maybe from home–but basically, you’re really managing the day-to-day of your children.

And it is true. I see this sometimes, especially with younger relationships, because the partner is the breadwinner, and the mom feels like she can’t ask for help or can’t get outside help, like spending money on it.

First of all, the act of taking care of children, especially young children–one of my daughters has two under five, right? And when I get with her and spend time, I’m like, “Oh my gosh.” Yeah. Because she doesn’t have a nanny or something like that. She does hire in some help. 

The amount of emotional bandwidth, physical bandwidth, and everything else that goes into it is unbelievable.

That job is such an important job. 

To feel any kind of guilt around that–you finally have to own your worth there because your worth is that you’re doing something to provide care and love for your children.

In many ways, women are sacrificing for a time building their careers, but they’re choosing it because they really want to do that. They may change that at a later date. 

So it’s so important to own that worthiness and then to be able to talk to your partner and see can they support you in some way?

One way of doing this is to see the areas that you really love doing, right? What is it that you enjoy? 

Like for my daughter, she saw that she really loved being with the kids. She just didn’t want to do the extra cleaning and picking up the house every day and all of that. So, instead of hiring somebody to take care of the kids, she hired support for someone to come in and really help with the household things. Because she loved being with the kids. By doing that, she chose to get the right kind of help. 

It’s really important to see what you want to do, and then also to notice what drains your energy. And see if you can get support in that area, right?

Then you can go to your partner, and you have this open dialogue about it. It’s really important in these situations to not go in complaining. I think, often what happens–is the breakdown of communication in this area. 

We feel tired or frustrated or whatever. We feel like we’re not getting the support we need, so we go in and complain: “I really need support, and I’m not feeling well, and I have to do everything.”

If you think about it, when you come from that place, nobody really wants to help you. 

So, you really want to get clear about what you want. Then, you go in and request your partner’s help to see how you can solve this together.

Does that make sense, Makena?

Makena: It does. I think that same process is really true, even for those who are not stay-at-home moms–where both partners are working.

It’s the same process of, instead of going in and complaining, really looking to see, “What do you want?” Then make a clear request and really be a team with your partner. See how you can make that happen together.

I remember–this was a funny example–but remember years ago when I wanted to get someone to clean our house once a month? And, you know, it could be quite expensive, especially in California.

I went to my husband–or I don’t know if we were maybe boyfriend and girlfriend at the time–but I said, 

“Listen, you know, I really don’t mind cleaning up throughout the month. We both do that, and we pitch in. But it really feels stressful for me, like the deep cleaning doesn’t get done enough. So I’d really love for that to happen.

I would either love that you and I deep clean the house”–I don’t remember if I said once a month or every other week–“or, if that doesn’t work for you, I would love to hire a cleaner.”

And he was like, “Great, let’s hire a cleaner.”

If I had just said, “I want to hire a house cleaner,” it wouldn’t have been as good of a conversation. 

But I was like–go ahead.

Gigi: Or you said, “You know, I’m so tired of doing this. This is not all my responsibility, blah, blah, blah.” 

Same thing is that, you know, “Well, too bad, you stay home,” right? Or whatever.

The way you approached that was beautiful.

Makena: So it could be a similar thing with your partner,where it’s like, “Hey, here’s where I’m feeling some stress, or here’s where I’m struggling. You know, I’m not sure.” That’s the thing too–you don’t have to bring the solution. Like, “I’m not sure how to get this handled.”

You can ask and then say, “Do you want to step in and do some of this with me? Or do you think we should hire some help?” 

Let your partner also help come up with a solution, because the reality is you just need whatever that support is. So, get really clear on what that is beforehand. 

Like with my sister that you were talking about–she really saw, “Okay, I want to be with the kids, but I don’t want to be doing all the cleaning up all week. I can’t do both with two small children at home. There’s constantly laundry, there’s constantly dishes, there’s constantly these kinds of things.”

And so, in that, she was able to make that request, like, “Hey, I would love to have someone in here, whatever that is–10 hours a week or something–to help with these other areas so I can really focus on raising our kids the way we want to be raising them, loving them, nurturing them, and feeling more, you know, sane and cared for.”

Yeah. So getting clear on what that is, and what would you love? Is that a certain number of hours a week or certain times? And really bring that to your partner.

Gigi: And if it’s something where you’re with your kids a lot too, and you really want to have more time with your friends or, get your nails done or anything, it’s the same approach. 

You say, “You know, I love being with our children, and I really feel like I need time and space for myself. And when I get that, I can be so much more present for our relationship and so much more present, you know, also with our kids.”

And so, “I’m curious–would you be open to taking the kids several hours a week or on a Saturday morning? Or should we get support? How should we approach this?”

And that’s dialogue, right? That’s bringing these things up–not coming from a complaint, but coming from a request–and then allowing the other person to really share what they see. And then, you’re choosing together.

Makena: If you need to complain first–because I know some people just have a lot of stuff built up in them, and they’re feeling resentful–do it. Like, journal it or something. Get a piece of paper, write out all your frustrations, write all the reasons your partner’s not showing up, or whatever it is you’re feeling, right?

Because you’re stressed, and you’re tired, and whatever else. Dump it all out on a piece of paper. Like you always say, Gigi–tear it up, throw it away. But you’ve gotten it out.

And then ask yourself–because you want to go into the conversation with your partner clear on what you want–ask yourself, “What is it I really want here? And what’s the result I would love?” And that’s what you go into the conversation with. Super, super important.

I want to talk about another one, which is the good mother syndrome. This is something we see a lot. And I think, more and more, too, as people are getting more educated about trauma and things like this. People want to make sure–I think it’s always been around to some degree–but they want to make sure their kids have good childhoods, that they turn out well, and that they’re not traumatized or anything like that.

And so, it becomes super stressful. I see this in some moms where it’s just so stressful for them because they’re trying to get everything perfect.

Gigi: Good mother syndrome, right? It’s trying to do everything so perfectly that you don’t screw up your kids. 

This is a conversation that is so everywhere today, which, again, was not true when I was raising my children.

We were just kind of doing whatever we were doing. And, of course, we made tons of mistakes. I do understand that being more conscious is a wonderful thing. And it’s also a gift that we have the time and the opportunity to be more conscious. 

But I do see that it kind of stops mothers sometimes from really just allowing themselves to be the kind of mothers that they are.

Early on, when I was raising my kids in my early years, my mentor at that time–so I was trying so hard to be a good mother, trying to do everything right. And one time he said to me, “Gigi, you’re not a good mother.” And I was like, “What do you mean I’m not a good mother?”

And he said, “It’s not the kind of mother you’re trying to be. That’s the mother that’s there all the time and doing all the right things.” 

And that’s true. I’m a mother that–I’m not. I don’t want to be home with my kids all the time. I’m not that kind of mother. I wanted to build my career and be with my kids–I wanted to do all kinds of things.

So, it was a very different kind of mother than the one I was trying to act like trying to be so perfect. 

And when I went more into who I was and started building my business and including my children, and designing my life around what I wanted to do–but also including my children–then that was really me being a good mother, right? That was my style.

And I think that because if you ask every mother, they’re going to tell you something different. We all have a different idea of what a good mother is. 

And so, I think to really, really relax around that and see what’s important for you.

I always say you’re going to screw up your kids. There’s no way around it. I’m just going to tell you right here: they will absolutely not be perfect.

And here’s another thing. I have five children. Every child has a different story about who I am. Some are very similar. Some are very different–very, very, very different. Because, again, we’re talking about the child seeing life through their perception.

The other thing is you’re going through different things at different times in your life. And at those different times, you’re a different kind of mother.

If you’re always trying to be a good mother, you’re basically not really present. 

You’ve got to really see–basically this: if you love your kids, and you’re good to your kids, and you keep them safe, and most importantly, foster their spirits in terms of who they are and what they want to do, then that’s all you need to do.

That’s it. Everything else is an added bonus.

Makena: Because otherwise, you see the kids that grow up, and they go, “Oh, my God, you tried to protect me too much. You babied me, you coddled me,” like, whatever it is. 

It’s like, no matter what–we did this, we did that–yeah, there’s always going to be something. There’s always going to be something.

And yes, to your point, I agree. You can be conscious, you can be aware, you can really look at what are the things that are important to you.

But to me, the good mother syndrome is anywhere you’re putting pressure on yourself because of what you–like, because of either trying to get it perfect, or because of what you think other people think, or because you think you should do certain things.

As opposed to, your point, Gigi, which is really looking to see what’s actually important to you. And what are the things that you can let slide because it’s just not that important to you? It’s really getting down to what’s your style, what’s your approach, and what really feels good.

Gigi: What your values? How do you want to raise your family? What are your family values?

And then, when other people are different, don’t make them wrong either. Because that’s what I see–there’s this, “Oh, they do it that way, so they’re wrong. And I’m doing it this way, and I’m special,” you know, whatever way people are doing–everybody mind their own business, basically.

Makena: Before we go to the last topic, we wanted to talk about, Gigi, could we just touch on the flow of energy in a relationship and a family?

If someone is in partnership while they’re raising their kids–and we know there are many single moms out there, so that’s a different scenario–but if there is a mother, children, and a partner, what is the flow of energy in that family dynamic ideally?

Because most of the time, I think what happens is that it’s from the mother to the children, and then the mother feels depleted, and then the partner feels may be ignored. And, you know, there start to be breakdowns over time.

Gigi: So, the proper flow of energy in a dynamic–and we’re talking about maybe, a partnership, male-female, let’s say, or it could be same-sex relationships–but it works like this: 

First, you take care of yourself. That is the oxygen mask on you first. And that’s key to being able to be present there for your partner and your kids.

But secondly, when you have children–and this is where it really shifts–a lot of times, when children come into the mix because they’re very loud and very busy, the attention starts going to the children first. 

And believe me, I do understand when you first have a baby or something like that, it’s almost impossible not to do that, right?

But it’s very important to set up the systems early on so that your relationship with your partner comes before the relationship and energy with your children.

Here’s what I mean by that: It’s very important to set up systems where you have a date night once a week, or you have time together away from your kids. And I know, if you can’t hire a babysitter or if it’s difficult, a lot of times family members will support, or friends that you have, so that you two have time alone and can care for each other.

And then, once you do that, here’s what happens: You feel refreshed, and then you put the energy into the children. And that is a beautiful way to build energy in a family system.

Because if you don’t do it, what happens is the couple will grow apart. They’ll start to grow apart, and then everything becomes about the children. Then they lose communication, and conflict comes in, and we basically ignore it. We just keep putting attention to the children, and this is how people grow apart.

I’m going to be very honest with you–I’ve worked with thousands of people and seen this dynamic. 

And it is this: This one piece of making and being responsible for your partnership with your partner comes before the care and time with your children.

Now, of course, you can’t say, “Oh, I’m going to go be with my partner and not take care of my children.” But you understand where I’m getting here–you set up the system. It needs to be weekly. It needs to be even more than that as the kids get older.

Otherwise, the family system will become weak. And even though you’re taking care of your kids, you don’t have this strong family system. And eventually, the kids feel that.

Makena: Any of these dynamics can cause breakdowns over time. So if you’re not putting the oxygen mask on yourself first–which is the first place the energy needs to flow–then what’s going to happen is you’re going to feel depleted. You’re going to start to feel exhausted. You won’t have the energy to give to your kids and definitely not to your relationship if you’re in one, right?

And that’s where resentment starts to build because people get overtired and taxed. And that creates this–it’s a break in the energy, a weakening, like you said, of the family system.

And then, very much, if you’re not, from there, coming from a place of, okay, you’re getting your cup filled, and then doing something consistent within the relationship to foster that, then, same thing–over time, it creates that weakening or breakdown or division.

And none of that serves your children in the end. 

That’s the thing that’s so powerful about this. People think, “Well, no, I’m sacrificing for my kids, or I’m doing all this, and I just need to focus on them right now.” But in the long run, the health of you, your family, your partnership, and the children–it’s so much about this energy flow.

Make sure that that stays strong.

Gigi: And it’s a cost to the family system–hugely. And I won’t go into depth. I see many more things about this, but for this podcast, we won’t go into that.

But this is so important for the health of your family system and the health of everybody.

Makena: This is where the communication skills really come into play. And we’ve talked about this on this podcast before–Gigi’s course, The Way of Growing Love.

If you don’t have tools for relationships, there are many places you can gain them. But if you are curious about learning from us–especially from Gigi around this, which is her genius–then you can check out that course.

It’s at wayofthemuse.com/growing-love. We’ll link it in the show notes as well.

I just wanted to touch on that because I feel like that’s such an important piece in terms of the health of the relationship.

And one last thing I want to say on that–or the family overall–is that I do know when people have young kids, they feel like, “Well, I can’t do date night because I can’t put the kids to sleep,” or, “What if the kid wakes up?”

And that’s where you can get creative and go, “Okay, is there a time in the day when your kid is usually awake–maybe on the weekend?”

Yeah, and that’s when you get some help, right? You know the kid’s going to be up from their nap, or maybe during their nap, and then when they wake up, some kind of time where you could get somebody in–whether that’s a family member, a friend, or hiring some help–and have that time with your partner, right?

So, you can get creative here. It doesn’t have to be a date night because I know bedtime is a big thing for a lot of families. But some kind of consistent time where you go with your partner.

Gigi: I just want to say, I know that when you get the kids to bed, and parents have been working all day, they’re exhausted–I get that.

But here’s the thing: if you set aside time and then make that time, set up your room with candles, and just go in and massage each other’s feet or something like that. That’s going to build energy. It doesn’t take energy. And this is where people don’t think.

Or you go in, and you put on some music, and you dance together. That’s going to build energy. It doesn’t take energy. 

Do you understand?

Yeah, and it’s in our minds–we think, “Oh, if we have to set aside time, then it’s going to take this energy.” You want to look at what are the activities you could do once your children go to bed.

Set up that time for intimacy–and intimacy is not just making love. It’s so many other things. It’s really spending some time together.

Get in and take a hot bubble bath together. If you’re going to do that anyway, have your partner come join you. Again, it builds connection and energy. It doesn’t take any extra time. It doesn’t take any extra effort.

Makena: Absolutely. Okay, one last thing. This is a really important one, especially for moms of older kids or maybe moms whose kids are grown. There’s often things about the past that come up where a mom thinks, “Oh, this time that we went through–that was really hard,” or, “I did this thing, or I didn’t do this thing.”

Or at some point, the kids start coming to you and saying all the things that you did wrong, right? 

Gigi: We had several. 

Makena: So, what can a mom do who’s struggling with mom guilt about something in the past?

Gigi: Yeah, this is a tough one. And I have to be honest–I went through this for a lot of years. Having five kids.

Makena: We put her through the ringer.

Gigi: Well, I put you guys through the ringer. I made a lot of mistakes during my parenting–many, many, many mistakes. 

There’s no excuse for that or whatever. I had guilt about it for many, many years and really couldn’t get myself up and out from under that.

So that, again, is why we teach it now–because I would love to accelerate that process for anybody else who’s going through it, so you don’t waste your time doing that.

Guilt is something that, as human beings, we feel, right? And then we beat ourselves up. 

When I started to transcend this, the first thing I had to do was, anywhere that I felt guilt, I had to really look and see: Was there something I could do? Was there something I needed to make right there?

And if that was true, then I would go to that child or to that person as much as I could. And I would apologize. I would talk through it and go through these really uncomfortable conversations. It doesn’t mean they always went pretty. 

They weren’t always easy–some were very difficult, some were very challenging.

In our family dynamic, for years, we had times where this was an issue, or that was an issue, or certain people were mad at each other. Like you said, I went through many years where one kid was upset with me because of things from their childhood, and then the next year, the next one was upset with me.

So, it was a lot. 

But what I saw over time was that, when I did that, it started to clean things up. And as I cleaned things up and made it right, the only thing I could do other than that was move ahead and try to be a better person–or, I think I’m a good person. I should say it differently–to do the things that were right or take different actions.

And so, I think for yourself, if you’re carrying around a lot, that’s the best you can do. The more guilt you have in yourself, the more you need to go and see: Is there a way to make it right with the person?

If there’s not, then write a letter. Burn it. If that person’s gone, they’re no longer on this planet, write a letter, pray–but do this in such a way that you do it consciously to allow yourself to let go of it.

That is the best you can do. That’s the only thing you can do, right?

Because when we carry it around–I was listening to this Alan Watts, whom I love–he was giving this speech. And he said, basically, that what we’re guilty of is that we made a mistake in life. That’s all it is. We made a mistake in life.

And everyone makes mistakes. We make mistakes all the time.

So, I just want to share with you: Everyone makes mistakes. Yes, they do. Your sister and your brother and your mom and dad, too. Big people, small people. Matter of fact, all people. Everyone makes mistakes, so why can’t you?

If everyone in the whole wide world makes mistakes, then why can’t you?

Makena: Wow, we got you singing twice in an episode! This is going to be the best episode of all time. We’re going to watch the ratings, and the ones where you sing are going to be the ones that are off the charts.

Gigi: So, if you want to know who sang that song, it’s Big Bird. You can go find it–it’s Big Bird, from Sesame Street.

But truly, that is the truth. You made a mistake. And, you know, Alan Watts talks about that. It’s almost like a badge of glory when we keep on rehashing and rehashing it and making a really big deal out of it.

Finally, the courageous thing to do for everyone is to let it go.

For me, when my kids would come back to me–and like I said, this happened a lot–I would go into this spiral of guilt. But as the years have gone by, now I just go, “Okay, here’s the next one.”

Maybe I feel a twinge for a little bit, and like I said, if there’s something to apologize for, I go for that. And then I have to let go of it.

I’m a different person today. My kids have no idea what I was going through at that particular time in my life. Our children don’t know our experiences or what we were dealing with at that time.

Then the other thing is to give yourself a break. Be kind to yourself. That kindness, and teaching your children kindness to yourself instead of guilt, is one of the greatest gifts in the world you can give them.

Makena: Absolutely. And you might need to create a little ritual around it or something, you know? 

After you’ve made things right in the way you can–in terms of apologizing or whatever it is you feel you need to do–create some sort of practice where you say, “Okay, again, I want to journal this out,” or, “I’m going to light some candles,” or whatever that is for you.

And really step over an imaginary line, whatever you need to do, to say, “I’m letting this go. I’m putting this behind me.”

And that’ll create so much space and freedom.

I’ve watched you do this, Gigi, over the years, and it’s been really powerful. I was thinking about that as we were talking here just a minute ago–that I feel like you’ve taught me this skillset.

Not only–I’m not a mom yet–but in life, how do you, if you do have guilt about something or you feel bad about something, how do you make that right and then come to peace? 

Because there’s nothing else you can do, and it doesn’t serve anyone for you to walk around carrying it.

Gigi: The hard thing is, when you do go and have those conversations–I remember a couple of them–there was a lot of anger and blaming me.

And I couldn’t resist that. You know, if you want to get in there, even if you feel like a lot of it’s untrue, you can’t go in and argue about it. I just took it and said, “Right on,” because for me, it was worth it.

It was worth getting that through and getting that out of our family. 

And in that–we talked about this the other day–in our family dynamic, we have peace in our family, in all areas. Huge peace.

That’s remarkable if you think about it–for five kids, and then four of you are married, with children and everything. 

We’ve really, really created a harmonious family system that has a lot of peace in it.

Makena: It’s taken years. It’s taken years and years.

Gigi: And of course, we’re human. We have little things here or there, but yeah, 

But this is the thing, too–we’ve all been willing to do the work.

Makena: Absolutely. So that’s our episode on mom guilt. I think there’s so much here, and hopefully, no matter what stage of motherhood you’re in, you can really listen, take something away from this, and maybe give your mom a little bit of a break as well.

Gigi: Yeah, absolutely. I say… I wrote an article years ago that said, “Give your parents a break, no matter what they did or whatever. Give them a break.”

Like I said, you have no idea what your parents were going through when they made the mistakes, or how unconscious they were, or how they didn’t even realize. 

You just have no idea what people are going through.

That’s a great thing about our work. After working with tens of thousands of people in different shapes and forms and writing books for them and things like that, you see the human experience. 

Most people have no intention of hurting other people. It’s not what they’re out there to do.

Makena: People are doing the best they can with the tools they have at the time.

All right. Thank you, Mama, for sharing your wisdom.

Gigi: Thank you.

Makena: Can I go share this episode with all the moms in my life? 

Hopefully, you listening will do the same–help us spread the word. If you enjoyed this, if you got value out of it, share it with your mom friends, share it in your mom groups–like, whatever, wherever you think it would serve.

Gigi: Yeah, yeah.

Makena: We’ll see you next time.

Gigi: See you next time.

Makena: Bye.