Makena: Hello, everyone, and welcome back to Way of the Muse. I’m Makena and this is Gigi. We’re excited to be back with you all this week talking about a topic that I feel is very hot right now. I’ve been wanting to do this episode for a while, which is boundaries. 

How do you set boundaries in your personal life, in your work or professional life, and do that in such a way that it’s effective and not abrasive or something that might alienate people or disrupt your relationships? So that’s what we’re going to start with today. Gigi, do you want to say anything before we jump in?

Gigi: Yes, like you said, this is a topic that comes up a lot in coaching. When we work with people, we’re working with their relationships and all the different dynamics and arguments that are going on. Often I’ll have a client come to me and say they’re setting boundaries, and like you said, Makena, you can immediately feel this is not going to be pretty. They thought they were having issues before, but now when they set this boundary, it’s even more problematic because of where it’s coming from. I’m excited we’re talking about this today so people know there’s an approach to boundaries—it doesn’t have to be all or nothing.

Makena: Definitely. What we see a lot is something we call the “pendulum swing.” There are pendulum swings in all sorts of things, but if you imagine a pendulum going all the way from one side to the other, this is often what happens around boundaries. 

Usually, people who don’t have boundaries in place end up resentful or frustrated. That builds up, and then they might swing to the other side where every little transgression feels huge, and they overreact. So, they go from not really setting boundaries or letting people walk all over them to overly reacting.

Gigi: I’m so embarrassed because I see myself in this.

Makena: She was like, “Did you write this episode about me?” I said, “No, I didn’t even think about you.” But I guess it was a good self-reflection moment. We all have our areas, right? What ends up happening is this creates a lot of drama. 

Sometimes it can even damage relationships and people start cutting others out of their lives, saying, “Well, they can’t hold my boundaries so they’ve got to go.” There may occasionally be a time and place for that, but for the most part, there’s a way to approach this so you don’t have to go that far. That’s what we want for our listeners.

Gigi: Yes, and there’s actually kind of a problem with the word “boundary” because it has this energy attached to it—it implies there’s a wall between you and someone else. What we want to share first of all is that a better approach is boundaries are, first and foremost, about the standards you actually set for yourself. For me, this has been huge; Makena, you’ve taught me so much about really seeing what’s right for me. 

Sometimes I just don’t even look at that. It’s about being clear—what’s right for me, what’s wrong for me, what works and what doesn’t work in my world. When we live in accordance with the standards we set and communicate them clearly, boundaries become easy to uphold. It doesn’t have to have anger or forcefulness behind every time anyone does something; you don’t have to push back. The main thing about boundaries and setting up what works in relationships and communication is: how does it create more harmony? That’s what it does—you’re not nitpicking about the little things.

Makena: Yes, I think a huge misconception is that boundaries need to be dramatic or will always create a lot of conflict. The real reason for boundaries, like you’re saying, is actually to eliminate that. If things are clear and in place—like when I was in marketing and copywriting, every time there was an issue with a client and something wasn’t clear, I would look at whatever it was and write it into my contract for next time. I’d work with my lawyer to write in all the timelines, expectations, everything. Over the years, the contract became robust, not too crazy, but enough so everyone knew the expectation: I’ll deliver drafts by these dates, I expect a review by this date, and if it doesn’t happen, here’s what happens. I may need to prioritize other work. 

Over time, it made things clearer and there were fewer breakdowns, miscommunications, and frustrations. We’re not always going to do contracts that in-depth, but you can use contracts in your personal life as well as your professional life. Gigi’s here in California with me, and she has my dog Chloe on her lap—so cute! But yes, contracts help clarify things. Even if it’s just a verbal agreement, the result should be less frustration, less confusion, and, as you said, Gigi, more harmony.

Gigi: The bottom line is harmony and taking the push and pull out of things. All my clients listening know I have them write contracts with their kids, with everyone. In it, there’s accountability on both sides; it really sets up knowing what’s expected of everyone. 

Even with our children, things can get murky, but contracts teach them accountability—if they don’t keep their word, there are consequences. It’s just a great way to learn. In all my decades of coaching, when people start something and I ask if there’s a contract or something written, they say they’ll get around to it, but later, because they didn’t do it, things backfire. We never fully remember what was said. When money starts moving in a business, people forget parts of the agreement. It’s not that they’re bad people; it’s human nature. 

That’s why we have contracts: we put it in writing so there’s clarity, and then we can focus on good relationships and dynamics.

Makena: What do you think it is that makes people not want to put contracts in place? Even in professional situations, people skirt around it.

Gigi: That’s a good question. Maybe it’s about incurring the cost to get a lawyer and do a contract. But often you don’t need a full legal contract—just writing down the agreement, what the two people agreed to, signed, and thinking through what could come up. Previous experiences give you information—you learn what works and what doesn’t, correct as you go, and get good at seeing what serves both people. Another thing is assumption: we assume when we say and agree on something, the other person sees it the same way. But definitions differ. For example, integrity may mean something different to me than to someone else.

Makena: I like to imagine a six written on the sidewalk between you and someone else. They’re standing on the other side; you’re both seeing it, but one says it’s a six, the other says it’s a nine.

Gigi: Exactly.

Makena: You might not realize the other person sees it as a nine until much later. People interpret things differently; we want to think the best, but maybe people feel that if they put a contract in place, they’re doubting someone’s integrity. That’s not it at all. Contracts and agreements set everyone up for success, protect relationships, and prevent breakdowns.

Gigi: From my experience, most of the time contracts protect relationships. It’s not about trust, but having all questions answered. Otherwise, you spend time thinking, worrying, wondering if the other person will follow through. People waste so much time in their minds, fighting and worrying, and it can ruin businesses and cost millions.

Makena: Yes. The reason I’m so boundaried—though it’s still a growth area for you, as you say—is really because you’ve taught me so much. When I had a big contract, I spent weeks negotiating upfront. Yes, I worried that maybe I’d lose the contract, but it was important because later, I had the contract to reference and it saved me a messy situation. We’re talking a lot about business contracts, but you can do this even in your personal life. Just write out your agreements with someone and sign it. It’s about the spirit of it, both having a copy, not necessarily the legally binding nature.

Gigi: Yes, sometimes people want to go back and change their minds, and that’s fine if you’ve written it in the contract that you’ll revisit it at a certain time. It’s so worth thinking these things through to save yourself time, pain, money, emotional stress, drama, and relationships.

Makena: I think another reason people don’t do this is they’re moving quickly and don’t want to think through things upfront. But, as you say, it saves so much time and energy in the long run. I want to come back to your point that boundaries are standards we set for ourselves. Let’s give examples. Maybe you never check work emails on weekends. Over time, even if company culture is different, people come to know that’s your standard. You might have an autoresponder that says you’ll reply Monday. That’s a standard you uphold for yourself. 

Another version: someone who doesn’t gossip. People might try to have those conversations, but you just don’t engage, and over time, people realize not to bring up gossip around you. You don’t have to make a big deal out of it. People see how you operate through your behavior. 

Third example: you only commit to something if you have the bandwidth and will follow through. Many of us say yes when we mean no. When you step back and check in first, people see you as reliable and someone who keeps their word. So those are a few examples.

Gigi: I love those examples. You probably want to know: how can I identify where I need to set better boundaries? Many people really don’t know. Some ways you can do that: are there places where you’re saying yes and you mean no? Or start to look at where you feel resentful or frustrated on a regular basis. 

I’ve defined certain areas for myself and cleaned them up by asking, “What am I tolerating that I don’t want to anymore?” My coach once asked, “Where do you need to say, ‘That’s enough?'” Also, look at where you feel like you’re giving more than receiving. These are great places to discover where you might need boundaries.

Makena: Great questions. Where are you saying yes when you want to say no, or giving more than you receive? We’re not going to go deep into the why—yes, maybe you want to explore that, but here we’re talking about how to shift it. Where is it showing up, and how can you make a shift? 

So don’t analyze why you’re a people pleaser—just look at where it’s happening and pick one or two things to start. Some common scenarios where boundaries might be needed: at work, saying yes to projects even though you’re too busy, ending up frustrated or burned out, which doesn’t serve you or the company. 

Stepping back, look at your bandwidth and say, “I can’t do it all—what are the priorities?” That’s a good way to approach your boss. With clients, coaches get frustrated with clients who cancel last minute, contact them outside business hours, or ask for more than agreed—scope creep. At some point, that doesn’t feel good anymore. These are examples where better boundaries are needed with clients. What about personally, Gigi, like with friends?

Gigi: Being late all the time is a big one—if your friends run late or cancel last minute, and for you, time is super important, that can be tough. You might have a conscious conversation: “I value your time and mine—if you can’t make it, please text me or let me know ahead.” And ask them to be on time. Or, you could add humor: some friends are always late, so you say, “I’ll show up 30 minutes late since you always run late.” There are light ways to handle it, too.

Makena: You have to see what works for you. What are other boundary scenarios?

Gigi: With team members, not following through on commitments is common. It creates frustration in a team if one person doesn’t pull their weight. It’s important to acknowledge commitments and ask, “Can you do this? If not, what do we do?” Maybe they need support, but it has to be addressed, not just let frustration build. 

In relationships, your partner might not help with household responsibilities, so you have to talk about what support you want or your expectations. Or, a partner not following through on something they agreed to. These little frustrations build up a lot. Really, what we’re talking about is not necessarily boundary violations but maybe you haven’t set or communicated the boundary yet. We’ll talk about how to do that next. 

So, pause the podcast, write those down, or think about your top one or two areas to work on. Now, the question is: how can you communicate your boundaries to others in a healthy way?

Gigi: To get clear about what you want, you have to ask yourself honest questions. If you were truly honest about your needs, what would you ask for? Where does the frustration come from? What would you ask for if you trusted people would respect and love you? Maybe you’re worried that asking will drive people away or cause conflict. What are you afraid will happen if you set the boundary? I think it’s important to look into your fear. Like you said, when you put it into a contract and were specific ahead of time, you worried you might not get the job, right?

Makena: Yes, definitely. There was always a chance they would say I was being too upfront or difficult. I wasn’t trying to be difficult—I just needed clarity. I wasn’t asking for anything over the top, just making sure things were clear. Sure, in the back of my mind I worried maybe they’d walk away, but with enough money and time involved, it was worth it.

Gigi: You have to be willing to take that risk, because when people don’t do this, it ends up a mess.

Makena: Absolutely. The other big one, after you get clear on what you want, is never complain and never explain. Gigi, you taught me this. When communicating a boundary or a request, don’t start by complaining about past issues. 

For instance, don’t go to your partner and list all the ways they’ve failed—it’s not the way to start the conversation. Ideally, you just say, “Hey, I’ve been thinking about this, and I’d love to make a request. Could you take out the trash once a week?” 

That’s more of a request than a boundary, but if they’d agreed and hadn’t been doing it, you might say, “I noticed that hasn’t been happening, is there something else we could do to ensure it gets done?” There’s no complaining, just stating facts, not pointing fingers or over-explaining—just stating, “Here’s what we agreed, it hasn’t been happening, what can we do?” Is there anything you want to add, Gigi?

Gigi: This is really difficult. It’s so hard to do.

Makena: Yes.

Gigi: When we’re personally connected with people, have history and communication patterns, it’s so easy to go unconscious and just complain—“You never do this!” and then list everything else they haven’t done. Then ask for what you want, but now the person’s defensive.

Makena: Exactly.

Gigi: I get it—I make this mistake all the time. With a little finesse and time, learning artful communication will save you time and energy. But in the beginning, it feels frustrating and time-consuming.

Makena: That’s so much of what we work with clients on—not just boundaries, but communication in their personal and professional lives. This is really your genius, Gigi, and a lot of what you’ve taught me: how to have conversations in a neutral, collaborative, non-combative way. It’s about inviting them to help find solutions. 

At a high level, that’s easy to say, but it’s nuanced when you actually do it. Just starting with not complaining and not over-explaining are great rules to remember. If you nitpick, people tune out. Easier said than done.

Gigi: And don’t over-explain! I work with clients on this all the time. Don’t go in and explain yourself—just share what you want, very clearly. Fewer words are better. People feel bad and think they have to explain, but it makes everything murkier. Clear communication is usually acknowledgment, request, and stating what you said. Work it out together.

Makena: So, we’ve talked about finding where you need better boundaries and how to communicate those boundaries healthily. 

The last question is: What if other people don’t respect my boundaries after I’ve set them? Gigi and I were just talking about this before recording. This is where agreements or contracts come in, even if they’re just verbal. If there’s a recurring breakdown, step back and have the conversation or put an agreement in place. 

The agreement should cover what you’re both agreeing to and, if it doesn’t happen, what’s the consequence? These don’t have to be huge ultimatums—there can be incremental consequences. Maybe the first time it happens, you agree on one thing, if it happens again, there’s another consequence, and so on. 

For example, in business, if an employee is written up three times, then they’re fired. Basically, incremental consequences can be agreed upon, so there’s no need for drama—you just state, “Here’s the consequence we discussed.” Does that cover it, Gigi?

Gigi: Yes. I’ve had many times with clients in work settings, and one way I suggest is to go to the person and say, “This isn’t working, what do you think the consequence should be?” It’s great because it lets them step into your shoes. 

You can even ask, “If it was you in my position, how would you handle it?” It gives people a different perspective instead of feeling attacked. Sometimes, kids come up with much stricter consequences than parents would, but it makes people start to think. For children, it teaches them to think in this way.

Makena: You may not do a contract with everything. If you’re talking about your partner taking out the trash, maybe you don’t have a contract, but you might sit down and write out all the household responsibilities, just to make it clear. If breakdowns keep happening, look at why, and use a collaborative approach: “Do you just forget? Are you super busy? Do you hate taking out the trash?” 

Understand where they’re coming from. Instead of complaining or blaming, say, “What’s going on?” Maybe they just forget, so you could suggest, “Should we set an alarm to remind you?” Collaboration instead of frustration or ultimatums.

Gigi: People are busy. Intentions are good, but they forget. With couples, even with the best intentions, they forget what was decided. So, simple things like making a list of household responsibilities and putting it on the fridge, with names by the duties. It helps—people see it and remember. Often, it’s not intentional, but without the reminder, they forget.

Makena: Absolutely.

Gigi: That sums it up.

Makena: Some common mistakes with boundaries: not keeping your word with yourself first. If you and your partner set up agreements but you don’t hold up your side, they’re likely not to either. Also, if a boundary is crossed, you need to uphold the consequence or broach the conversation. People get resentful and let it build up until it erupts. 

Step up: have the hard conversations, refer to agreements, and, if necessary, enforce policies—like reminding a coaching client of the cancellation policy. You can make exceptions, but be clear about the boundary. The mistake is letting people walk all over you. What are some other mistakes, Gigi?

Gigi: Another is thinking you have to make huge ultimatums, sweeping changes, or eliminate people from your life. Instead of being prepared and making agreements, people get upset and frustrated when others don’t follow boundaries, but don’t set up consequences to avoid drama. Then, always creating drama—delivering your frustration so forcefully that it creates defensiveness or blame, and not simply asking for what you want. Acknowledge, state what you agreed on, and ask, “How can we make this work in the future?”

Makena: Absolutely. To tie it all up: pick one area to start—you don’t have to tackle everything at once. Find one area you feel resentful, frustrated, or like you’re saying yes when you mean no. Ask yourself, is there anything I need to change in my own behavior? Get clear on what you want. Communicate, put agreements or consequences in place. Remember, you are training people how to treat you. If everyone crosses your boundaries, ask yourself if you’ve been clear, asked for what you want, and upheld your side of the agreements. Over time, you train people by keeping your word with yourself and with them.

Gigi: Yes, this is a meaty topic.

Makena: It is! If you have any questions, you can always reach out to us at support@wayofthemuse.com. If you know someone who would find value in this episode, please share it. That’s how we spread the word about this podcast. This is a powerful topic that can make a huge difference for you and those in your life. Thank you.

Gigi: Thank you, Makena. If you really liked this episode, please like it and give us stars on the podcast. We’d love for other people to see your feedback and share it with even more people.

Makena: Yes, ratings, reviews, shares—it’s all helpful. Thank you, thank you, thank you.

Gigi: See you next time.