Makena: Hello, Hello!

Gigi: Hello. Hi, Makena. 

Makena: Hi, Gigi. Welcome, everyone, to another podcast episode here on Way of the Muse. 

Today, we’re talking about a topic that we’ve kind of hinted at in some of the other episodes recently. We said, “We should really go deeper into that one.” 

So, we’ve titled it “Bringing Sexy Back: How to Find Your Mojo…

Gigi: I think there’s a song… 

Makena: I know I might’ve taken a little inspiration from Justin Timberlake. But it’s really about how to find your mojo and feel turned on again. 

This is a very important topic, and I want to say that this episode is really for anyone who wants to feel more sexy and turned on in their life–whether you’re currently single or in a relationship.

It’s also for the person who feels like they’ve lost any interest in this. They don’t really feel like they want to feel sexy or turned on. It feels like more work than it’s worth. 

Then you are really going to love this episode as well, I promise. Even though you might be thinking, “I don’t know if that’s really for me.”

And I do want to say–and I’ll talk more about this as we go through the episode–that in full transparency, I was that second person for a long time. 

This was just not an area that felt like a high priority to me, so I’ll share more about that as we go through today.

Gigi: Yeah, and as you’re listening today, also really think about if there’s someone in your life that you’d love to share this information with. Your girlfriends, your sisters–who else do you know that could benefit from this? 

Even though it’s a sensitive topic, it’s so important to the overall quality of life, even for health. So be sure to pass this on and share it with other women in your life.

That’s what’s so wonderful about these podcasts. Sometimes maybe you can’t talk to somebody directly about this, but you can say, “Hey, I just listened to this podcast, and I’d love to share it with you. Would you be curious about listening?” 

That’s a great way of sharing information.

Makena: Absolutely. I feel like that’s so much of what we’re doing here. 

These are topics that I sit around and talk with my girlfriends about–things I want to share with people. So having these episodes that we can pass along is really helpful. I do this constantly with other podcasts too. Just like, “Oh, you’ve got to listen to this episode or that one.”

Gigi: Yeah, you’re really good at that.

Makena: Alright, so let’s dive in. Again, we see two main categories of people when it comes to this topic, and we’re going to touch on both today.

So the first group–we’re going to call them Group A. 

This is the group that really feels like they want to get their mojo back. Maybe you used to feel sexier and more turned on, but you’ve lost touch with that part of yourself, and you really want to reconnect with it. But you’re probably busy, tired, or both.

We often see this with women who are career-driven, busy moms, or under a lot of stress and pressure in their lives in some way. 

So again, this is Group A–and this episode is definitely for you.

Then there’s Group B, which has a lot in common with Group A. 

But the key difference is that they’ve lost interest in feeling sexy, sensual, or turned on altogether. Maybe you identify more with this group right now… maybe you’ve always struggled in this area a little bit, and the older you get, the less important it feels. Or maybe you had it before, but now it’s just not a priority.

Gigi: Yeah. And we often see this with women as they get older. Like myself, right? Maybe the kids are out of the house, they’ve lost the spark in their relationship, or they’re divorced and just not that interested in that aspect of life anymore. It’s kind of gone to the back burner.

Makena: Yeah, absolutely. Honestly, Group B can include the same types of women in Group A–career women and busy moms. So there’s no rigid line here. 

We’re just trying to help paint a picture that this episode is really for you, no matter how you’re currently feeling about this area of your life.

Like I said earlier, I identified with Group B for many years. I was a busy career woman. I didn’t have kids, but honestly, feeling sexy or turned on felt like the lowest possible thing on my priority list. You might identify with either of these groups, and you might be single or in a relationship. Either way, we’ll speak to both.

And Gigi, you’ve taught me so much in this area, so I really want to ask you a lot of questions today–as usual.

So I want to start with a question I was asking myself a few years ago. It’s actually a couple of questions. 

First of all, is it really that important to focus on our sensuality and sexuality as women? And if so, why? Why is it important, and why is it worth our time?

Because that’s really where I was sitting a few years ago, going, “I don’t know… Is this really that important? Do I have to do this? I’m so busy already.” 

Of course, a part of me wanted to feel more sensual or more connected to that part of myself, but it just felt like–where am I supposed to fit this in?

Gigi: Yeah. And I remember that was when you were working so hard, right?

So, first of all, the short answer is absolutely yes. It’s incredibly important–and it’s important for yourself first, before anything else. Your sensual and sexual energy is sometimes referred to as your kundalini energy. 

Kundalini is literally the life force energy that runs all through our bodies and that’s often experienced as sexual energy.

What happens is that if there’s a blockage anywhere in the body–if that energy isn’t flowing freely–it can have a big impact on your health, vitality, and overall well-being. 

And I’m not just talking about feeling sexy or having sex. This is more about when your senses are open and you’re connected to that natural life force. That energy flows through your body.

We’ve all felt that at times, right? You feel more connected to your senses, to life. And, of course, you also have more access to feeling sexy and turned on.

And like I said, we’ve all experienced that at certain times in our life. You know, when after doing something and all of a sudden youd be like, “Wow.”

We feel all this energy flowing through us.

Makena: So you’re saying there’s kundalini energy–this energy that flows through the body–but there can be blockages. And it’s not just sexual energy–it’s this life force energy.

So I guess people are probably thinking about times when they’ve felt more sexual or turned on, if they’ve had those times. 

But what are you referring to that’s maybe not about sexuality in terms of feeling that energy moving through your body?

Gigi: You have other access points, and one of those in our coaching method is we practice what we call the Aliveness Method. 

It’s about tapping into your vitality and what brings you alive, which is another way of activating your life force energy within you. It’s not about thinking about what brings you alive; it’s actually feeling it. 

That’s where we coach people to pay attention to: when are those times where you feel that energy running through your body, and you feel excited, inspired? You feel this desire to get up and conquer the world. But it’s an energetic feeling. It’s visceral.

Makena: Yeah. Mm.

Okay, so kundalini energy–it’s this life force energy. There’s this aliveness piece for some people, and then there’s a sexual or sensual piece as well. 

Can you go a little deeper–how are those two connected?

Gigi: It is, and maybe it would be helpful to think about it as being kind of like a spectrum. 

Kundalini energy is not necessarily sexual. It’s about being fully awake and alive and tuned in with your senses.

Think about when you’re doing something that you love, that really brings you alive–how do you feel? 

And again, for the listeners, as I talk about that, think about when you’ve felt super vital, super excited in life. And again, it’s in your body. You want to jump up and get out of bed. 

Makena, if you just think about it, what’s an example for you in your life?

Makena: Yeah. I mean, we’ve talked about this one before on the podcast, but probably photo shoots are one of the biggest examples for me. 

I love being on camera. I love creating really creative, artistic photo shoots with great photographers. It’s really the whole process, but especially the photoshoot day.

There’s the planning, the concept, designing the whole thing. Then you get to the shoot and there’s just this magic that happens if you’re working with a great photographer who can bring your vision to life. 

You’re co-creating. It really feels like I go into a flow state, and I feel so high afterward–clear, energized, bright, and happy. It’s one of the most peak states for me.

Gigi: Interestingly enough, that’s also creative energy. So if we’re talking about a spectrum, that turned-on feeling can also come from when we’re experiencing creativity. 

These all go together. When we work with clients around what brings them alive, often they find it’s something that has a creative element, even if it’s not painting or dancing.

That’s actually life force energy. And that’s the same energy that is the foundation of sensual and sexual energy. The more you tap into that, the easier it is to access a more turned-on state–if that’s something you want to feel more connected to. 

Does that make sense?

Makena: I think so. I’m just trying to think about that. 

So if I were doing more photo shoots–more things like that–that had me feeling that way, that had me connected to that aliveness of energy, then it would be easier for me to access more of the sensual and sexual energy? Is that right?

Gigi: Yeah, that’s right. And it would actually be activated in you. 

I can give you examples in my career. Over the years, when I was traveling and leading workshops in person–whether in Europe or New York City–I can’t tell you the number of times, after leading a workshop with women, I’d be walking through the airpor, and I would get so much attention. Men would talk to me, ask me out.

I was in New York one time and a man got in the elevator with me. He was one of the founders of Essence magazine, and he said, “I noticed you from over here.” I was on a break from a workshop, and during those times, I was so lit up and in my flow and energy. That made me super magnetic. 

That’s that kind of sensual, sexual energy. It was even sexual because it was attractive in that way.

Makena: That’s so interesting. So that’s in terms of your magnetism. But then in terms of a woman who’s feeling like she’s not connected to this in herself, she would have easier access to it too–she would feel more easily connected?

Gigi: Absolutely. And you have to start paying attention to it. 

We’ll talk a little more about the actual sexual part of it in a few minutes. But that’s where you begin, even having the desire to start feeling more sexual.

Makena: Right. Yeah. It makes so much sense. I mean, if you’re in your life and you’re bored, and you’re exhausted all the time, and you’re just going through the motions, it is going to be harder to access that. 

But I can see how having more of that energy and vitality running through your body in the first place would really help.

So, I want to go back to the original question–just make sure we’ve covered it. Why is this important? 

Apart from someone who really wants this, there are also people who feel like they don’t have a whole lot of interest, and they’re like, “It’s just not a priority. It doesn’t feel that important to me.”

Gigi: Yeah. I touched on this before. When there’s blocked energy in your body, that can become a place of dis-ease. And that’s where disease begins. 

Of course, we’re not predicting anything here, but you might start to see different ailments coming up–because there isn’t that healthy, free-flowing energy and movement through your body.

Or look at it another way–have you ever had a time in your life where you were feeling super alive and turned on? Maybe you were even having great sex, or you had a great love, or this was with your partner and you were feeling so connected to your body and your sensual energy.

I’ve had that before too–sometimes even when you go on vacation with a partner. You have time to relax and unwind, and all of a sudden there’s space and time. Then, there’s likely this sense of vitality. 

So when you felt that way–when you had those experiences–you probably felt more inspired and energetic. Likely you felt more healthy. Your conversations were deeper, more exciting.

The opposite of this would be when you’re going through life and you’re just feeling a bit numb. You’re not connected to your senses. You’re just going through the motions, staying busy, busy, busy, and not truly feeling or sensing life. And we all have those experiences.

Makena: Yeah. That one hits really close to home for me because I spent a lot of my adult life feeling that way. I remember when I was much younger, I felt more connected to my body and my senses. But I think as I got into school–like a university–I was studying really hard, working multiple jobs, just kind of burning the candle at both ends.

Then I got into my career, and I just carried that forward with me. I got less and less connected to that part of myself. It is like I was less connected to my body. “Numb” is a good word for it. 

I don’t know if “disassociated” is the right word, but I was so in my head, and it was like, “Oh wait–I have a body?” 

I only thought about my body if it was hurting or if it was really talking to me loudly. Most of the time, I was just living in my head, working, and moving through life.

Just to say–I relate. If anyone listening to the podcast has had experiences like that or gone through times like that–and if someone is listening and really wants to get their mojo back, or maybe is like me and hadn’t made this a priority, but on some level there’s a longing to feel it too–that was me.

And I have to say, it did take sort of an intervention. It took you really talking to me about this to help me see that this is a real priority.

Before we get into the next part about how to shift this, I’m curious, Gigi–what would you say to someone who’s feeling like this still isn’t a priority? 

They’ve heard the reasons we’ve just given and they’re like, “Yeah, I get it theoretically. I can see why this would be important,” but it’s not quite hitting home. 

Or, what did you say to me–some version of it–a few years ago to really help me break out of that and make a change?

Gigi: Well, I would say, first of all, you have to see what turns you on. And I don’t mean just sexually. Start doing more of what brings you alive. Not just alive in your head, but where you can actually feel that lightness in your body–that inspiration and softness in your being. The moments where you feel like yourself.

Go back to those things. 

If that’s writing, dancing, skiing–whatever it is. Where are those moments when you connect to you?

As I said to you, I think it was about being able to feel completely. 

Because you were numb, right? And being able to access your sensuality and sexuality would make your life so much richer. And also your relationship–fully connecting with your partner and having experiences that are available, that you can’t think of in your mind. You can only feel them in your body.

Makena: Right. I want to be really honest about what came up for me when you talked to me about this, because this might come up for people listening.

When Gigi would talk to me about this, it felt really uncomfortable. It felt like there was something wrong–like I wasn’t fully… not a woman–but like I wasn’t fully doing something. I felt a lot of frustration and a lot of anger–not at you, but at the whole thing.

I was just like, “I already do so much. I work so hard in my career, and in my life, to be a full, balanced person, and have a good relationship, and do all the things. And now there’s this other area? It feels hard.” 

It felt so foreign at that point. And it’s not that I had never felt any connection to it–but it was just so far away. I was like, “How would I even begin to access that?” It just felt frustrating.

So that’s what came up in me at that time.

But I could hear the truth in what you were saying. A part of me did long for something more. It wasn’t even about sex–it was about longing to feel more connected to myself, more alive, more connected to life.

Sometimes, I describe it as life in black and white versus life in color. 

When I was in that go-go-go mode, I had less access to the senses, or to joy, or something. I saw that in other people and part of me longed for it. 

But I was also like, “Oh my god–another thing on my to-do list.”

Gigi: Yeah. I think a lot of times women feel like maybe there’s something wrong with them. What I’m sharing again is from my experience–and that’s true of all of our podcasts. I’m not predicting that everyone’s the same. It’s up to you. 

But if you do have an interest or a curiosity, from my experience, when you open up to this part of yourself–and for many people, there is trauma, there are all kinds of things around this–that’s where it’s really good to get support to walk through and talk through it.

For you, it was very much of an unwinding process. And what I often see in women is, you’ve been doing things one way for so long. Like you said, you forget. You think, “Why would I even go there?”

So first, opening up to aliveness and feeling more vitality makes you more curious.

Makena: Yeah, I really like that about some of the things you’re going to share today–how you don’t have to start with the sexual. You can completely set that aside for now if you want to because it may feel super far away from where you are right now. 

But if you ease into it with more of the aliveness, and more of the other pieces we’re going to talk about, that starts to open something up. And then desire builds, right?

Gigi: That’s right. Desire builds. And that’s also–we’ll talk about it in a few minutes–but also feeling more sensual, dressing prettier, allowing yourself to open up to the attention of being more of a sensual being. 

So yeah, I don’t know if that answers your question.

Makena: I think so. And eventually you can get support–or even get support in the early stages–depending on where it is you feel you really need it. 

Sunny and I, at one point, hired someone to come in and work with us, and that was really great. I had done a lot of the unwinding already through some of the things you’re going to share, and then we got to a point where it felt like we’d gone as far as we could on our own. 

Things were better and more connected, but we thought, “You know, it would be really great to get support.” And it was fabulous. It opened up a lot of new dimensions.

So again, if you get really stuck in this, that is something you can do.

Gigi: This is the first piece–even in my Secrets of Power Couples work with couples. Their intimacy is the fuel for their relationship. And the deeper you can go with your partner–and to be frank, the more orgasms you can feel and have as a woman, and the depth of orgasms–the more you really unwind. 

It puts you out of control, which is a powerful thing for a woman.

Makena: And so uncomfortable for someone like me who loves control. Oh, so good.

Alright. So, what are some of the ways people can start to access this?

Gigi: Well, we talked about the aliveness, right? And also just connecting more to your senses–finding different ways to do that. It can be eating certain foods you love.

I think about when I was in Hawaii, and we lived on Kīpahulu when Mariah was born. We had a mango tree in our backyard, and I’d never really had mangoes. 

When I discovered mangoes on Maui, I would pick them off the tree, open them, and eat them in the backyard. They were a sensual experience. I love mango.

And it’s so funny–my little grandson Weston, the other day, his daddy gave him just the pit of the mango. And if you could’ve seen that kid eat that–just suck on it, spend so long–he was the same way. He was in bliss. Those kinds of experiences start to open up your senses.

And the other thing for women–hugely important–is slowing down. 

When you slow down and savor instead of rush. When you–well, I always tell the women, remember in the mastermind about putting on lotion? I said, “Do you wake up in the morning and go, ‘Here’s my lotion,’” or do you go, “Let me put on my lotion…”

Makena: For those of you who can’t see her–she’s very slowly putting imaginary lotion all over her body.

Gigi: Yes. And learn to do breast massage and all of that. What happens is something wakes up inside of you.

For me, music is a huge thing in terms of tapping into my sensuality and creativity. So finding your favorite music, stopping, and taking it in fully. 

It can be spending time in certain environments. If you really love the beach–when I go to the beach, oh my gosh, I feel five times more sensual. 

Wearing different clothes, walking with the air blowing through your hair–what is that for you?

The other thing is creating beautiful environments to spend your time in. Having those places in your home where you really feel like it’s a beautiful palace for you. Or that place, your altar, where you feel connected. 

Growing up with me, Makena, you know I would put on my long dresses in the morning and feel into the energy of moving in those dresses, lighting candles, enjoying different fabrics on my skin.

There are so many ways.

Makena: I have to say–for some of you listening, this is going to be a remembering or a returning to something. And for some of you, it’s going to feel really foreign.

Because for me, naturally, I would never think to do these things. It’s not really in my natural makeup. I think anyone can access it, but when I think about you growing up, you always created environments, played music, stopped to do these things.

I was always more focused on exactly what I was doing, what was in front of me. I’ve opened up more, but I have to remind myself–a lot. It’s not my natural go-to. So just know that either way is okay. You don’t have to judge yourself if this is all new and you’re thinking, “Wait, what? I would never even have thought about these things.”

Set an alarm on your phone. Do something to remind yourself–“What’s one thing I can do to feel more connected to my senses right now?” Can I slow down and savor this food? Can I put on some music and light candles?

I think of it almost like learning a foreign language–for some of us.

Gigi: Absolutely. I’ve led retreats for over 35 years. When I used to do my Art of Woman retreats, we even did this in Costa Rica. I had the women bring their beautiful lingerie, and they would wear it. There’s something that comes alive in them. I’d say, “Buy beautiful lingerie and wear it under your clothes,” and you just feel a little more sensual and sexy that day.

The other thing is that some people tap into their sensuality more when they’re in nature. They really feel grounded–even being in the dirt. 

It’s really about getting reconnected to your body and seeing what it is for you. And if you don’t know, you have to explore.

Makena: Yeah. So again, we talked about aliveness as the first step. What are those things that bring you alive?

Now we’re talking about what connects you to your body and to your senses.

Gigi: Yes. In the podcast we did earlier about When Women Relax, They Become Wise, I talked about my Thai massage experience in Thailand for the first time. That was a game-changer for me in terms of opening up my senses, in terms of relaxing my body. Because again, sensuality also comes from relaxation.

It also comes from–yes, there’s sexual tension and different forms of sexuality–but for me, it’s very much about finding ways to release and feel myself. You have to think about what it is for you.

Makena: Yeah. What connects me more to my senses… That’s a good question. Probably baths. Baths, for me. Definitely food is an access point. What else? 

I think things that make me slow down and be present. That could be lighting candles, putting on music, or taking a hot bath.

Anything I could rush through or put on my to-do list is not going to be one of those things. I want to say movement, but that could easily become something busy and task-oriented. 

So yeah, I think those are some of the things for me.

So, what if we want to start to take this into the realm of more sexuality and that kind of turn-on? What are some things that women can do there?

It’s kind of a “choose your own adventure.” Do you want to start with the aliveness and the sensuality piece, or do you want to go more into the sexuality piece?

Where are you now, and what feels like an access point you can tap into?

Gigi: One of the simplest practices is self-pleasure. This is great whether you’re single or in a relationship, because again, it all needs to start with you.

I often see women, when it comes to their sexual relationship, trying to please their partner. I always say, “Please yourself first.” 

The more turned on you are, the more your partner will feel that–and they’re going to love it.

One of the best sex coaches out there, Kim Anami, recommends self-pleasuring for 10 to 15 minutes a day–every day–because when you do this, you stoke the fire. She even talks about doing it more.

I actually started her mentorship program, her certification, and decided not to complete it for personal reasons. But I have to say, her material is very raw and real. She’s absolutely right about self-pleasuring. When I was in her program and really started to do this, I was like, “Oh my gosh.” 

I remembered again–being single–I could feel my sexual energy again.

It’s great to try this out, even for 30 days. It’s a great little challenge you can do for yourself, even if you’re in a relationship. You don’t even have to tell your partner. Just start practicing, and all of a sudden, you’re going to look different, feel different. I guarantee you. Because you’re waking up and shifting out of that numbness.

If your sex life has gotten a little habitual, then waking your own self up like this–feeling turned on–it’s going to make you feel more curious about life, your partner, and even about yourself.

Yeah, absolutely. The other thing I think about–right now it’s spring, and that’s also a great time of year to wake back up again, because we’re kind of thawing out from the winter.

If you’re in a place that’s really cold, it’s that time of renewal and reinvention and rejuvenation.

Makena: Yeah, I love that.

So you could take any of these as a 30-day challenge. You could do a “Tap Into Your Senses” challenge–set an alarm on your phone and spend 10 to 20 minutes a day doing something that connects you to your senses. 

That doesn’t have to be sexual at all, if that feels like the place to start for you.

Or you could do the self-pleasuring challenge and do that for 30 days. Again, lots of options and different pathways.

Is there anything else you’d suggest to our listeners apart from what we’ve already talked about? 

What about women who are in a partnership and really want to rekindle that spark with their significant other? Why is that important?

I mean, it seems obvious to some people, but for others, they’re like, “I don’t know. We’ve been together forever. It might not be that important anymore.”

Gigi: Well, I’m going to talk about men and women because that’s the dynamic I work with in my Power Couple work. But this really applies to any relationship–including same-sex partnerships.

I believe staying connected with your intimacy builds a very deep bond. Intimacy is the bridge to strength and good health in a relationship.

It’s a place where–when it’s strong–you can actually see it. You see the vitality in the couple, the magnetism in both of them. There’s an energy you can feel. 

It’s a place where men can open their hearts, let their guard down–and of course, this is in a relationship where you’re bonded and together–and it’s a place where women can go out of control. That’s super important for women.

Over time, it’s also important that you become better lovers for each other. Your man can become a better lover. You can become a better lover. Your relationship and intimacy should get better over the years–not become more numb and distant.

Makena: That’s such a… what would you say? Counterintuitive idea. It goes against what people typically believe about relationships–that intimacy is just going to fade over time, that it’s normal, not a big deal. And you’re saying the opposite can–and should–be true?

Gigi: Yes, absolutely.

When intimacy falls by the wayside in a relationship for a long period of time, it actually brings tiredness into the body. They don’t have the same kind of vitality or connection with the person they’re living with.

Think about it: when you have an intimate relationship and you spend that time together, couples always say, “Oh my gosh, we should do this more often.” When they actually put that time into their calendars, something shifts.

If a couple is not connected, they don’t have access to that restorative energy. And that energy is restorative. It allows the couple to grow together.

And of course, intimacy has ebbs and flows. It’s not all wonderful and incredible sex all the time–or lovemaking. There are times when lovemaking becomes less frequent, or it starts to feel a little more habitual. 

But that’s when I encourage couples to bring in surprise–to bring fun back in, to tap into their sexuality again.

Not like, “Okay, we’re going to schedule sex tonight and it’s going to be amazing.” It’s more about finding ways to reconnect through touch, dancing, or something else. That kind of playful, physical connection opens something up.

Makena: I want to say something about what you said earlier–the idea of intimacy being restorative, and how not having it can lead to tiredness. It made me think about youthfulness in couples as they get older.

When they’re not connected to intimacy, that’s going to age them. An example that came to mind was when a couple divorces, and then one or both of them finds a new partner. They tap back into their sexual energy with someone new. It’s fresh, exciting–and you see them look younger. They come alive again. You see their vitality.

That’s not the only path to get there. You don’t have to end the relationship to access that again. You can do that within a relationship too.

Of course, there are some relationships that are meant to end–but just to say that kind of spark, that youthfulness, can return within a relationship. It’s just another reason why this is so important.

Gigi: Yes, absolutely.

Makena: So–any last things you want to share, Gigi?

Gigi: Yes. Another important point for women is: it takes time to get fully turned on. So, you have to find ways to carve that time out.

This can be a meeting with your partner in a hotel once a month–getting out of your environment, especially if you have kids. I have clients who do that. They meet in a hotel. It doesn’t mean they don’t make love at home, but they carve out that time to get away from everything.

You go, you order room service, maybe drink champagne–whatever feels fun and sexy to you. Or maybe you do something really intense together. You drive fast cars, get your energy and adrenaline up–whatever it is. That’s me, right?

Makena: That is not my access point. I’m like, “Wait, what does that have to do with anything?”

Gigi: Then you go home and spend the rest of the night in bed together, or whatever. But also, having weekly time that you set aside to be with each other. Maybe give each other long massages–30 minutes each–to unwind, connect, and really feel how you want to be touched, and talk about that.

Or dancing–dancing can be very intimate and activating with the right music. We lose that sometimes when we’ve been with someone for a while. Those forms of play bring out a different side of yourself and bring you closer.

The most important thing is to have regular intimate connection–date nights, or something each week where you spend time together. 

Ideally, it’s a time that’s an hour, two hours–where you have space to really connect. That can be lovemaking, but it can also be dancing, taking a bath together–just having that time.

That regular time will start to stoke the fire for both of you.

Makena: Yeah, that’s been huge for us. Honestly–putting it on the calendar. It sounds so unsexy, but it’s been a game-changer. Having a block of time–two hours–where we know we won’t be busy or distracted.

We had to experiment a little with this. The idea is often to have a date night, and we still love date night, but we’re usually too tired afterward to be intimate. So, we experimented and found that mornings work better for us.

We like weekend mornings. I know you’ve had clients who do that too. We can wake up slow, take our time. Of course, we don’t have kids yet–but we’ve talked about, when that time comes, hiring someone to come in on a weekend morning so we can continue that ritual.

Even if the kids are in the house with a babysitter or family member, we want to keep that time sacred. 

It looks different every time–sometimes we talk first, cuddle, take a bath. There’s usually intimacy somewhere in there–but having that time set aside to connect has been so pivotal for our relationship.

Gigi: Yeah, I almost think the date night should be separate from the sensual or sexual connection time. Because date night is often about going somewhere, doing something. This time is about carving out space for pleasure, connection, and bonding.

You’re in your space, your environment. Set up your bedroom. Make it beautiful. And like you said, for a lot of people, mornings work better. You have to find what works for you.

Makena: Yeah. So again, we know many of you are busy, but that’s really the thing–if you think about all the things we shared today in terms of how this impacts you. 

Not only in your connection with your partner and your bond over time, but also in your health, your well-being, your sense of being alive, and in your senses, your youth.

It’s why carving out some time is so, so important. We prioritize a million other things in our week and think, “Oh, that has to happen.” But for some reason–maybe culturally–we let this fall to the bottom of the priority list.

Gigi: Mm-hmm. Yep.

Makena: So that’s the main thing with this episode today. We just wanted to share a little perspective on this because it’s made a big impact for me personally, and also on our relationship–and the way I feel and the way I move through my life.

I’m so much more relaxed. That’s one of the biggest things. I’m able to feel and sense life so much more. 

I know there’s still a long way to go for me, because it’s not the most natural thing in the world to feel connected to my senses in that way, but it’s ten times different than it was a few years ago when we were having that conversation.

Gigi: Yeah. And for our clients too. I’ve worked with many clients on this, and the change in their partnerships when they start to make this important–it’s a game-changer. In terms of everything in their life. Their business, everything.

Makena: Yeah, the ripple effect of that for couples is huge. In terms of everything–success in business, careers, family dynamics. You really do see it. 

I see it in our clients, especially the ones you’ve worked with around this over the years. Power Couple is a great word for it.

This is one of the foundations.

Awesome. Well, thank you, Gigi, for sharing–as usual. Beautiful.

Gigi: Thank you for your great questions and for sharing as well.

Makena: Alright, everyone. We will see you on the podcast next week. Thank you again. If there’s anyone in your life that you’ve been having this conversation with–or think this episode would serve–please pass it along.

And if you haven’t already, please rate the podcast, subscribe, and leave a review–all the things. It really supports us in continuing to bring this great content to you.

Okay. See you next time. Thanks.

Makena: Welcome, welcome, welcome. I was thinking, what’s a new way of starting the podcast? 

Gigi: I’ll leave that up to you.

Makena: Yeah. Very soon for us, we’re starting to double record so we can have some of these episodes stored up. That way, you can get both of us instead of needing to go back and forth when we’re traveling.

Here we are recording an episode that I have been wanting to record since before we even had a podcast. This is something I’ve always thought–if I could just get Gigi on audio or video to talk about this topic, it would be such a gift. There are so many women I come across that I want to share this with.

You have a unique perspective that I think is really powerful. I’ve seen you help so many women with this–friends, clients, all kinds of people. We’re talking about getting pregnant today. 

This episode is really for anyone who thinks they want to get pregnant.

Whether you think or know you want to get pregnant, whether you’re in a relationship or not, whether you’re 22 or 42, wherever you find yourself–if you have any doubts, hesitations, fears, anything like that, this episode is for you.

Gigi: Yes. Now, I thought–We did something on this.

Makena: We did. We did “Babies or Business,” which was really about my journey and about what I see some women struggle with. We can link that one in the show notes. That episode was about whether you can have a career and a business while having a family. So, a very specific kind of hesitation.

Today is really more about getting pregnant, whether physically or in terms of deciding, regardless of whether you’re in a partnership. A little bit of a different angle.

I talk to a lot of friends and sometimes clients who want to get pregnant or are trying to get pregnant. Maybe they’re struggling, it’s taking longer than they thought, or they haven’t even started but have this idea that it’s going to be hard.

Gigi, I just want to open up broadly–because you’ve supported a lot of women with this over the years. Can you speak to that?

Gigi: Yeah. Women come to me, and I’ve been teaching classes for so many years with women. I do interviews in these classes, and babies come up a lot. 

I always go deep into that and ask, “Do you really want a baby?” If you do, then go for it.

There’s a back and forth, and I think we talked about that in “Babies or Business.” 

So many times, there’s a desire, then hesitation because of fear–fear of not being able to get pregnant, being told by a doctor it’s too late.

Oh my gosh, don’t even get me started on that.

Yes, we go to the doctor, check our bodies, get a checkup. But a lot of it is setting that aside 

Your body is so wise. If you want to make a baby and that baby wants to come in, they will.

You have to go into it with 100% belief.

I’ve worked with women who have been trying for a long time without success. That’s when I sit down and have a conversation to see what’s going on.

Is there something they want that they’re not sharing?

You and I talked about this–sometimes there’s something in the partnership that’s not completely settled. Maybe there’s a fear around money or a fear around how they’re going to take care of the baby.

The things in our subconscious have to be looked at–not as problems, just to bring them to the surface so they can be set aside. Then, you can go for what you want, which is having a baby.

Makena: Before we go deeper–because there’s so much I want to go into–you said you talk to these women, and the first thing is, “Do you want a baby or not?”

We talked about this in “Babies or Business,” but not everyone has listened to that. So, I think it’s worth going over again. So many women don’t feel clear.

Many listening to this episode know they want a child. But some are still going back and forth, saying, “I don’t know.” They go around and around in their heads.

Is there anything you would say to the woman still grappling with the decision? Or the woman who isn’t in a partnership but feels like, “I do want kids, but I don’t know. Should I set this aside because I haven’t met the person?”

Gigi: Yes. I can definitely tell you solutions for that.

I believe every woman knows if she wants a baby or not.

If you’re saying you don’t, it’s probably because you’re listening to everything outside of you–all the reasons why you shouldn’t, can’t, or might not.

But deep in your heart, you absolutely know.

There’s an exercise in Human Design where you ask yourself simple yes or no questions: “Is ice cream cold?” Yes. “Is it hot outside?” No. “Do you want a baby?” You know the answer instantly.

Makena: And the question you always ask that’s so brilliant is:

“If the fears were handled, or if the things you’re concerned about were taken care of, would you want a baby?”

That’s so important. If you had the partnership, would you want the baby? If you were financially secure, would you want the baby? If the things you’re worried about were in place, would you want a child?

Women usually know instantly.

Gigi: Absolutely. Once you know that, then it’s just a matter of the “how.”

If you don’t have a partner–I’ve had this happen many times in workshops–women want a baby but don’t have a partner.

Maybe they’re in their late thirties, and they really feel like their clock is ticking. I tell them, “If you want a baby, you can have a baby.” You don’t have to be in a committed partnership. There are ways to do it.

I’ve had several women take that option, and now almost all of them are in committed partnerships. They found their partner later.

One woman built a big business empire, and she so wanted a child. One day I said, “If you want to have a child, there’s an easy way to do that.”

She had a dear friend–a man she trusted deeply–and he was her sperm donor. She used his sperm and had her daughter. Several years later, she found her partner. She’s now married and very happy.

Another woman really wanted a baby. Her husband had passed away, and she told me one day that he had frozen his sperm. I said, “What? Then you should go handle that immediately.” And she did. Now she has a child.

This was 25 years ago or something. I’ve seen this happen numerous times. 

If you really, really long for a baby and feel it’s something you want to do, then I say go for it.

You, of course, have to figure out how you’re going to provide for your child, how you will live your life, how you will get care. But you have to do that whether you have a partner or not.

Makena: Yeah, I love that. Just really seeing what it is for you and then not waiting on the partnership if you’re really at a stage where, like you said, you feel like time is running out.

Because the main thing is, there is a finite period of time where you can have a baby biologically. 

You don’t want to have that regret of, “I waited,” and the partnership–it’s like waiting on something outside of yourself, and then you didn’t do the thing that was really on your heart and soul to do.

So that’s the main thing. 

That’s for women who don’t have the partnership. What about for women who–I think we’ve covered this, but is there anything else for women who are just on the fence?

So we said the question is, “If all these things you were concerned about were handled, would you want a child?” Is that basically what it comes down to?

Gigi: I think so. And then you say yes. Once you say yes, you can also do what we talk about, which is create a scenario.

“Okay, if I do want a child, how do I want to do this? What’s the timeframe? What do I want to do here?” Walk yourself through the whole process, think it through, and really own it.

Because if you have one foot on the gas and one foot on the brake, and you’re not sure, again–this might sound crazy, but I don’t know if all the babies will want to come into that.

If you really, really know you want one and you open up and are open to having that baby come through, then you’re being in the world in a different way. It changes the relationship with your body in terms of becoming pregnant, if that makes sense.

Makena: That’s an interesting point. You can look at that from many different lenses. Some people would call this too woo or out there. You’re talking about it from the sense of maybe the spirit of the baby wanting to come through.

But also, there’s the biological part of this, where our minds and the mind-body connection are extremely powerful. If you are hesitant or going back and forth, you’re sending mixed signals to your body.

That’s something really important to note. You want to have all green lights if you’re going to go for getting pregnant. It needs to be all green lights.

And I think that’s what we’re going to get deeper into here–what are some of the things that show up for women that cause maybe a yellow light?

They’re trying to get pregnant, or they think they want to try, but there’s this push-pull, stop-start. Something that’s not quite full steam ahead. That causes mixed signals to the body too.

Gigi: Yeah, absolutely.

Some of those are like–we had a situation with one woman I spoke to, and she really wanted a home.

Until she could get in a home, she was hesitant. She wanted to have a home when she had her baby.

Makena: And she didn’t know that completely, like, consciously.

I think that’s important to say. I remember this particular situation, and I think it was taking her a while to get pregnant. She and her husband were trying, and several months went by, and she started–she was a little bit older, not older-older, but I think maybe 40 or something like that.

She started to feel concerned, like, “Is something wrong? I don’t know.” 

But I believe you had a conversation with her–I can’t remember exactly–but ultimately, what you found is that when it came down to it, she didn’t feel totally stable in her home environment.

Gigi: Insecure. Because that’s so much for women. We need that feeling of security in some way.

Bringing a baby into the world–it was the same for you. You’ve been planning and planning because you wanted to wait until you had that secure feeling.

That’s what you were waiting for.

Makena: Yeah. Absolutely.

And as soon as she and her husband bought a house and moved in, they were pregnant a month or two later. It was very quick.

That’s a great one–to really look and see, is your home environment, or like you said, your sense of stability, something that gives you that green light?

There’s probably a financial component for some women as well.

Gigi: Yeah, a big one. Being hesitant because they’re worried about being able to take care of their child, or maybe in their partnership, both partners have been earning, so they want to take time off, and there’s concern about that.

 Yeah. That’s a big one, because, again, that security–financial security–is huge for women to be able to completely relax and feel like they can take that time to nurture their child and be with them.

That’s one that really has to be discussed with your partner if that’s something you’re feeling.

And I’d like to say this too–babies are born every day, even when things are challenging. I went through tons of challenges.

There’s no way to plan things so perfectly that they’re always going to be perfect.

Makena: I think it comes down to, before we go into the next one, how can you make peace around whatever this area is?

It’s not that everything needs to be perfectly figured out. But if–some women get pregnant either way, and it’s not an issue–but for some, if you’re having a harder time or it’s taking longer than you thought, and you look and see, “Oh, I do have some concern about finances and how we’re going to do this,” or “We haven’t talked certain things through if I’m in a relationship,”

That’s what I think is often the issue. It’s not even necessarily the actual situation. It’s just that there are things left unsaid in that space.

Maybe you want to take some time off and haven’t communicated that to your partner. Or you want them to provide more. Or you don’t want to stay home with the child, but you think maybe they have an expectation that you will.

Whatever that is, really speaking to that. Again, not that it’s all going to be perfect, but that you can at least have those conversations to a point where you can make peace in yourself.

I think that’s the most important thing.

What was the other one you were going to say?

Gigi: A big one is–are you stressed in your life all the time?

This is one I’ve seen so many times through my years of leading retreats. I’ll meet a woman, and she’ll tell me she can’t get pregnant. I’ll say, “Come to my retreat. You’ll get pregnant after.”

Of course, I can’t guarantee that, but I’ve had it happen so many times. Women get out of their environment, they get with other women, and when we’re with other women, we relax.

Supportive women.

We relax in a way that’s very different.

They have this time to reflect and really get connected to their bodies. When they step back into their life, they’re on fire, they’re turned on.

I’ve had men say to me, “Please, let my wife or my girlfriend come back to your retreat. She can go as often as she wants.”

Women come back, and they’re in their bodies again. They’re in that energy. And that heat makes babies too.

So, finding ways to let go and enjoy yourself, to play–that’s also important with your partner. If you’re in a relationship, how can you have fun, play, and enjoy each other? Take the attention off “trying to make a baby” and go into connection and play.

Let yourself go. Let yourself go out of control.

Makena: I want to go deeper into this one because it’s so prevalent. 

Women are in the go-go-go mode all the time. 

That was my story for so long, and it took a long time to unwind that before trying to get pregnant, which I think was very helpful. Otherwise, I probably would have had a very different experience.

For us, it only took a couple of months, but I can imagine if I was still wound up the way I used to be, always in that go-go-go mode, it could have taken much longer. That state is not optimal for the biological process that needs to happen in terms of hormones and everything required to create a child.

I also want to play devil’s advocate here because a lot of women sit in that place. I was there. 

They think, “Life is busy. I have a lot going on. I don’t see that changing. Maybe I don’t even want to change it.”

Going on a retreat is great. That’s one way to step outside of life for a while. 

 So could you tell maybe a more specific story? 

I mean, you’ve kind of shared about women often come on retreats and then get pregnant. Do you have maybe one in mind that you could share? 

Gigi: Yeah, I had a woman that came to Hawaii. Hawaii is always the place. 

I don’t know what it is about Hawaii. That’s where I got pregnant with you and with Mariah.

I had a woman come on a retreat there. She had been trying to get pregnant for a long time. She already had a child and really wanted another baby, but it just wasn’t happening.

She came to the retreat, went back home, and got pregnant immediately.

Makena: I remember she talked about that unwinding process and how much of a shift it was.

She got into a different state that she couldn’t access in her day-to-day life.

Gigi: That’s right.

Makena: Yeah. So if someone is in that go-go-go mode and maybe they can’t go on a retreat or they’re not going to, then what are a couple of other ways they could think about that?

I mean, you said having more fun with their partner. What else? 

Gigi: What are some ways that you did it?

Makena: It’s a good question. For me, it was a bigger process that I’ve talked about a lot on the podcast–really unwinding the overwork pattern and the go-go-go.

Of course, I tap into that sometimes, and I enjoy that energy–being effective in business and going for things–but I saw that overall, it wasn’t the state I wanted to be living in most of the time.

For me, it was really detrimental to my health. How I shifted that was changing the way I approached my work, the way I approached my life, having more space.

What else did I do?

When it came to getting pregnant–this is kind of a tangent and a little bit of a different direction–but by that time, I had made so many shifts and changes. You had taught me so much over the years.

First of all, just know that it’s going to happen. Don’t even question it.

Know that my body is absolutely capable.

Don’t overanalyze.

I mean, I would have been the queen of overanalyzing if not for your influence in my life because I’m that kind of person. I would have gone and tested every little thing. And I did–I did a lot of preparing, testing my nutrient levels and things like that to make sure my body was as healthy as it could be.

But I didn’t overthink the ovulation. “When is this happening? How is that happening?” trying to map out every single little thing. 

I just thought, “This is what bodies do.”

Of course, we’re going to make love, do that regularly, and really have some intentionality behind it, but also have fun with it.

Not make it a chore.

Because I think that’s what I see–especially if you’ve been trying for a while and it’s not happening–people start treating it like a chore. They get into, “We just have to do the thing. It’s time. It’s one of the days.”

We didn’t bring that energy to it.

Of course, some days we were like, “Well, we don’t really feel like it.” 

But even on those days, I really tried to slow down, take our time, and enjoy ourselves.

I really feel like that energy was the right energy. It cultivated the right physical, emotional, and spiritual circumstances to have that happen more quickly.

Gigi: Yeah. When you ask, what are ways that you can do it?

It’s so important. Like I said, when do you really unwind? What nurtures you? What makes you unwind? 

I think it’s important to find more and more space for that if you’re someone who’s super busy, super stressed all the time, because you have to open that space for a baby to come into.

That’s the other thing–creating space in yourself to feel like you have time to have a child.

Also, spending time with your partner in such a way that it’s dedicated time–play, touch–not trying to get to a result, but enjoying each other. 

Enjoying your lovemaking, enjoying your touch, enjoying the time.

That builds connection and also heat. Like I said, for a woman, the whole thing about making love and really enjoying it is, how much heat? How turned on are you?

So, finding things that really turn you on–touch, smells, whatever it is–and using your extra time to play around in that world. I think that’s hugely important.

Makena: Yeah. Like you’re saying, what’s pleasurable for you? What relaxes you? 

It might even be just taking a bath or going for a nice walk, getting yourself into a different space before you and your partner connect to make love.

Bringing more of that energy to it.

Going back to some of what we were talking about–the green light, yellow light analogy–there could also be this process before trying to conceive of really asking yourself, Is there anything that’s making my internal light yellow or red instead of green?

Is there anything there for me?

Does a conversation need to be had with my partner?

Do I feel really stressed?

Do I have a fear that this isn’t going to happen?

One we could talk about next is hearing stories–maybe from someone who had a hard time getting pregnant–and that story getting stuck in the back of your mind.

I was talking to a woman the other day who’s in her late 30s. There’s no reason to think she couldn’t get pregnant. She already has one child. But a doctor told her, “No, you need to do IVF.”

Gigi: Yeah. Right.Crazy.

Makena: And it got stuck in her mind.

I told her, Put that out of your head. If it comes down to that, great, fine. But there’s nothing pointing to that being the case.

By the way, even people who do all the testing and are told they can’t have babies, you hear about miracle stories all the time.

Gigi: All the time. When they stop focusing on it.

You think about my daughter–one of my daughters–who had her last baby at 45. They never did IVF. They tried for a while, but they did it, and they have their baby.

I have raised you all because, for me, the part of pregnancy and babies was easy.

I think part of my gift is that I’m naive in a lot of ways, in a lot of areas.

I don’t listen to what other people say when they share all these stories.

I never think that I can’t do something.

There’s a gift in that. There’s also a not gift in that too.

Makena: I think it’s worth saying because–If somebody’s listening to this episode and they’ve never heard our podcast, they don’t know that much about who you are.

So, obviously, you’re my mom and also have five children, starting from the age of 18. You were pregnant with your first to 39, right? So, over 20 years.

You are this unique case in the world, this unicorn who just never thought anything of it.

You had relatively easy pregnancies, breastfeeding–all the things.

In one way, people could look at that and go, You’re so lucky. And maybe you are.

And in another way, I think there’s this piece of–like you’re saying–it’s almost like naivete, but it’s willful naivete.

You just decided, I’m not going to listen to what anybody else says. I’m just going to believe this is going to be fine and easy.

And it was.

So, in that, again, we often talk on this podcast about mindset and collective beliefs.

What are you listening to? What are you buying into?

What are you letting influence the way you think?

Because if you’re doing that, then that’s sending mixed signals.

That’s sending information to your body that says, This is going to be hard.

And if you keep telling your body it’s going to be hard, it’s probably going to listen.

Our bodies are very adaptable and intelligent in many ways.

Gigi: I think it’s important to mention that if you are someone who has had a difficult birth or a difficult time, it’s so important not to share that information with women who are trying to get pregnant.

Or with women who are pregnant.

I think that’s something we do because we want to connect and talk about our experiences.

But it’s really, really important to be sensitive to who you’re talking to and what they’re going through.

Be very careful not to put those kinds of ideas in their minds.

It’s too bad that, a lot of times, even professionals aren’t sensitive to that either–how much we influence people by what we say.

Telling someone about the hard times we had in a certain situation while they’re on that path to trying to get pregnant–it can be damaging.

Makena: That’s an interesting thought.

And it’s not that we’re saying don’t share anywhere.

Of course, you need to share, and you need to process.

You can do that with friends who are finished having children, or with older, wiser women in your life, or a therapist–whoever.

There are places to share.

But I agree–it’s important to be sensitive to friends in your life who may go through this in the future or are on this journey now.

We were just in our class last week in New York, and some of the women started talking about their birth experiences.

I immediately said, “If any of these are not super positive, just let me know, and I’ll leave the room.”

Because I am only open to hearing positive experiences right now. I know I’m in this vulnerable time, about to have my first baby, and what I put into my mind is so important.

And you also have the power, if you’re sitting with someone, to say that.

Not in a harsh way, but just, “I so appreciate you wanting to share with me, but I just have to ask–before you go into your story–if it’s not super positive, could we table this?

Could you maybe share it with me another time?”

“I just know I’m really sensitive right now, and I want to make sure I’m only taking in positive stories.”

People will get that.

It might be a little confronting for a moment, but like you said, when someone’s pregnant, we all want to share our experiences.

We think it’s to support them or to relate, but it’s important to be aware of whether we’re helping or planting fear.

So, tying this all in again to the sort of green light, yellow light, red light–

Is there anything else you see, Gigi, with people who are trying to get pregnant?

People who know they want kids, and maybe it’s taking longer than they thought, or they have some hesitations?

We’ve talked through a lot of different things here.

Is there anything else you see that might cause a yellow light, consciously or unconsciously?

We’ve covered, I think, feeling safe and secure–in terms of your environment, in terms of finances–as much as possible, at least putting that to rest.

Really looking to see–are there any other conversations you haven’t had with your partner if you are in a relationship?

Conversations that need to be had to give you that full, clear green light.

And we’ve talked about things other people have told you–stories you’ve bought into about what your body is capable of or about getting pregnant at a certain age.

I can’t remember what else we’ve covered.

I feel like we’ve talked about a lot of different things.

Oh–relaxation, right? And how important that is.

Yeah. Anything else you want to share?

Gigi: I think women also get into thinking something’s wrong with them.

That’s a big one.

If you’ve been trying and you haven’t had a baby yet, that thought can creep in.

And I think that one is really, really important to let go of.

There’s timing. There’s just no room for that thought.

There’s nothing wrong with you. You’re perfect.

Babies are born every day, and you’re just as capable as anyone else.

That’s really, really important because if women listen to other women or see everyone else getting pregnant while they’re having a difficult time, it’s really easy to start turning inward on yourself.

Making yourself wrong somehow.

Or making yourself wrong for your partner–thinking it’s your fault or something like that.

So I think that’s a big one too.

Makena: Yeah, I agree.

And I do think it’s important to probably mention miscarriage here because–

A lot of women go through that.

Whether they haven’t had a baby yet and they have a miscarriage, or multiple miscarriages, or they’ve had a child and then try again, and it doesn’t go to term.

That’s a really difficult thing.

And I think that’s where some women really start to create this belief or start to think, “Maybe I’m not capable. Maybe there is something wrong with me. Maybe I’m too old now.”

Is there anything you would say to a woman who’s going through that?

Gigi: Yeah. I’ve said to so many women–One particular situation I remember–

There was someone who had a couple of miscarriages, I think.

Then she started spotting and having issues.

The doctor told her to go to bed, and I told you, “I want to talk to her.”

And all I said was, “Listen. You’re absolutely capable of having a baby. You just need to relax, take care of yourself, see your baby coming, be so open to this happening, and completely set your doubts aside. This is absolutely okay.”

And she said it really, really helped her because everybody else was putting fear into her.

And now she has a baby who’s several years old.

And I’ve done this many times because, you know, when you go into that fear, it affects the body.

Right? Instead of just allowing–Some babies pass through, and they don’t stay.

Miscarriage happens, and a lot of times, I believe it’s nature’s way of protecting the baby and the mother.

Maybe the baby wasn’t healthy. 

Makena: Or maybe it wasn’t the right timing, for whatever reason.

Gigi: Yeah. So, to yield to that, but also not to go into fear–thinking you’ll never have a child.

Because–It happens to women all the time, and then they have babies.

And I know it’s a very difficult thing to go through emotionally.

Makena: And I do want to take it for a moment to the hormonal side of this.

Because one of the most important hormones in pregnancy–especially in the first trimester, but really throughout pregnancy–is progesterone.

Progesterone is one of the hormones that ensures the uterus stays intact and that you can carry a baby to term.

And what causes progesterone to rise? Relaxation. 

And the inverse–what causes it to drop? Cortisol.

So, if you are in stress all the time, if you’re in go-go-go, if you’re overanalyzing, if you can’t relax around it…

Or if you’ve had challenging experiences like miscarriage, and you go into fear, cycling and spiraling there…

Then it doesn’t create the right hormonal, physiological environment for a healthy pregnancy.

Now, I am someone who knows I have low progesterone typically.

I actually supplemented with progesterone in my first trimester, which is an option for women.

There are things like that you can do if you know you typically have lower levels–that’s something you can get checked.

So, you know, there are options out there on a medical level to support these things.

But even beyond that, you want to be doing the things naturally that you can do as well.

In terms of stress levels, in terms of mindset.

And just–why not believe?

I think that’s what this all comes down to. Why not believe that it’s going to happen?

Yeah, that your body is capable.

Women have had all kinds of things happen over the years.

And hey, if you try for years and years and years, and it really doesn’t happen–

And, you know, medically they find something, and they really say it’s not possible–

You know, again, we do see miracles still, where those women still get pregnant a lot of the time.

But, you know, then there are other options on the table–adoption, surrogacy, things like that.

And of course, there’s a grieving process, and there’s so much to that.

But like you said, we’ve seen instances–and you’ve probably heard these stories–Of women who go, Okay, it’s not going to happen.

And then–That’s when they get pregnant.

Gigi: Absolutely. Take the pressure off.

Makena: Yeah. So, the main thing I wanted out of this podcast episode was just to have you share your perspective.

Because, like you said, you’ve had so many of these conversations with women.

I mean, I know I’ve connected you with people.

I’m sure my siblings have too–like, Can you just talk to this friend who’s struggling?

And now, instead of having to have a one-on-one conversation with you, I can just send them this podcast episode and say, Listen to this. We covered all the bases.

Gigi: Yeah.

Makena: Yeah. So, a little less of your time involved.

But, yeah. Thank you for sharing again–your wisdom as always.

Is there anything else you’d like to share?

Gigi: No, just–be kind to yourself.

Yeah, I think that’s it. Just be kind to yourself.

And like we said, if you really, really want to have a baby–Then go for it.

That’s what I tell any woman who tells me she wants a baby– Go for it.

Makena: And have fun with it. Don’t make it a chore.

Try to remember–each time you go to make love with your partner–that could be the time.

What do you want that experience to be like? That’s what I tried to remember.

Because, yeah, okay, sometimes you feel like, “Oh, let’s just get it over with.”

But I really thought, “No. Let’s slow down. Let’s enjoy ourselves. Because this could be the moment.”

And believe it or not–you might not believe this–We knew the night that we conceived. We could tell.

There was some kind of energy.

It was like–we both felt something.

Sonny says he felt the spark of life.

It was like–something happened.

And we were able to verify that with the exact due date and how they calculated everything.

It lined up exactly with the night we thought we had conceived.

So, that’s kind of cool, right?

To just–yeah–we knew we were in that energy.

Something was different.

And it was a really beautiful experience.

To have that in our hearts, instead of just–Okay, we got to get this over with.

Gigi: Yeah.

Makena: So–yeah.

Alright, well, we’ll talk to you all in a future episode.

Again, as I said last time–if there’s a woman in your life who needs to hear this or who would really benefit from this–Please share it with her.

It’s one of the greatest gifts we can give someone–passing on this kind of information.

Because if they’re struggling–If they’re really having a hard time with this–Or going back and forth about whether they want a child in the first place–Then if this could help them, that would be such a huge gift.

So, please share, share, share.

And we’ll see you in the next episode.

Gigi: Alright–to more babies in the world.

Makena: Alright. Bye, Gigi.

Gigi: Bye.

Makena: Hello, everyone.

Gigi: Hi! Hi, Makena.

Makena: Hi. You’re back!

Gigi: Yeah, I went down into a deep, dark hole.

Makena: We missed you.

Gigi:  Plenty of rest, let me tell you.

Makena: Yeah, glad you’re feeling better. Yeah, happy to have you back.

Gigi: Yeah, thank you. Thanks for keeping it going.

Makena: All good. So we are back today with a topic that comes up a lot with the women that we talk to and in our coaching, which is menopause.

Of course, we’re not doctors, and I haven’t gone through it. You have. But as we started to really think about—somebody had brought this topic up with us and said, “Hey, can you do an episode about this?” And when I think, we’re like, “I don’t know if I have much to say on the topic.” And then I started asking you, and then you had a lot to say.

So we realized it probably was a good topic. And really, more, I think, on the mindset side, right? And on the how to approach this from the mental and emotional perspective is what we want to really talk about today.

Gigi: Yeah, like you said, we’re not doctors, and there’s—there’s so many—this is a huge scale, right?

So all I’m going to do is share just my experience and my experience of working with women through my 38 years and what I’ve seen in the evolution of this topic, which is such a big topic now.

Makena: Yeah, absolutely.

Gigi: I think we should start and tell them about what you bought for your baby yesterday.

Makena: Well, Sunny and I ended up in this store in Solana Beach, California, called Morning Lavender. And it’s a boutique and a coffee shop—it’s super cute. And they have all these, like, mommy-and-me outfits and, you know, frilly things. And so there’s this rack of, like, baby and newborn and, you know, dresses and sparkles and ruffles and all the things that—we’re having a baby girl.

And so we looked at them, and there was this one little outfit that has flowers, and it’s got butterflies, and it’s got a little tutu, and—over the top adorable. 

And so we were like, “Well, we’re not going to probably put her in this when she’s a newborn.” So she’ll be born in the summer. So we got it for her for when she’s one year old.

So we’re—we’re thinking ahead.

Gigi: I love how you guys plan.

Makena: We had to buy her something. It was so cute.

Gigi: Yeah. It’s very cute. Very cute.

And did you talk about our retreat last week too, in New York? I guess you probably did, right?

Makena: A little bit. I mentioned it, but why don’t you tell us from your perspective?

Gigi: Yeah, I just think it was just so wonderful to be with the women and, first of all, just to be in New York City again, ’cause I haven’t been there in so many years.

And we lived there for a few years, which we loved, in Manhattan. And so great to go back down memory lane and go back to where we used to live.

And then, of course, just the shops and everything. We went to the theater, and, you know, I think that the thing for me was just—it’s so powerful, what we can do. The retreat was really, what, two days?

Makena: Two days, yeah.

Gigi: People came in the day before, and just what we got accomplished in those two days was phenomenal, right? It was incredible.

And it just always reminds me that when we can get together—which I miss so much, and it’s hard for us because our clients are really spread out, you know, around the world—but that’s also why our yearly retreat that’s coming up in September is so powerful, because usually everyone comes. And they’re—you know, same thing, in seven days, you really get a lot done.

So, yeah, I just—I miss the in-person because I did that for so, so many years.

Makena: Yeah, it was, like you said, super powerful. The women were just, I think, blown away by how much we—and when we say we got done, I think maybe it’s good to describe that a little bit more.

Like, just in terms of—yeah, next steps, clarity. Always. But also—go ahead.

Gigi: The deeper issues. I think sometimes that you—you know, you don’t really get to when you’re sitting on a Zoom call.

Makena: Absolutely.

Yeah. So, yeah, I’m really excited. I won’t be able to be at this retreat, but she’s going to lead it, and she’s done this for almost 40 years—amazing, amazing retreats all around the world.

And we’ll have guest teachers, and we have an incredible group of women coming from our mastermind and then women from outside of the mastermind.

And like you said, I mean, I don’t know of very many retreats that are seven days.

Gigi: Yeah.

Makena: So there’s something to that in the first place—of just really, like you always talk about, stepping outside of your life for a week. A week plus with travel.

And really, it’s in the gorgeous Bavarian Alps, like the foothills of the Bavarian Alps, and there’s a 3,000-meter spa, which is like 9,000 square feet, and saunas, and just opportunities to relax and unwind and connect.

But also, through the facilitation—hugely—we create the environment, and you create the environment, and the exercises and the coaching to really help people self-reflect in a way that we just don’t do when we’re on vacation or just sitting there trying to think about things ourselves.

So we’re really excited about it.

Gigi: Yeah. In fact, one of my German clients—well, she actually—she didn’t refer it to us, but one of our other German clients did. And she just spent the last few days there. She took her kids skiing there.

So I have all kinds of videos and photos, and—absolutely stunning. Beautiful.

Makena: Oh, nice! Beautiful.

So this is in September. It’s called The Art of Letting Go: Discover the Path to Effortless Success.

And if you’re curious about that, we actually have a special going on. I think it might only be like one more day when this podcast episode comes out—until the 15th of March.

And that is where you can sign up and get a bonus coaching session. So, on top of getting to go to the retreat and everything that’s included with that, you get an hour-long coaching session with me, which is a $1,000 value.

And you can use that for anything you want here in the next couple of months to really support you on—again, if there’s something you want to get clarity on, or you’re growing your business, or next steps in career, or something in your personal life.

And so that’s a really special bonus we have going on right now. So you can go to wayofthemuse.com/Germany if that’s something you’re curious about. And we’ll put that in the show notes as well.

Makena: Okay. Yeah. So back to menopause.

So, Gigi, you’ve gone through this.

Gigi: Yeah. Long time ago.

Makena: I guess it was a while ago.

Gigi: Yeah, long time ago.

Makena: Yeah. And I know you’ve worked with a lot of women going through this as well.

So just share a little bit about, again, what you’ve seen here. Like, what happens when people start going through this stage, they’re talking to you about it? Are there any common themes or anything you typically say to them?

Gigi: Because of the span of my work, and a lot of my work has been with women through my career. Talking about being in person, I led workshops in person for 15 to 17 years, every weekend, all around.

I’ve seen a lot through all those decades. What’s fascinating now is it’s such a big topic. It was always a topic, but never like it is now. Absolutely never like it is now.

Going more into the topic, because it is a really pivotal shift in a woman’s life.

What I’m seeing is that for some women at this age, everything becomes about their menopause. I’m not trying to downplay anything that’s going on with someone.

As we mentioned before, we’re not doctors, and we absolutely know that everyone has a different experience.

I think what we want to share today is just maybe a new lens, a different way of looking at it, and a way that, even though the experience can be intense—the hot flashes and things like that—the way you frame it is really important to the experience you have, which is true almost in everything in life.

Makena: Really?

Gigi: Yeah.

Makena: I mean, it affects everybody differently, right? So it’s hard to say what one person’s experience is or a different person’s experience is.

But like you said, I do see also, in working with our clients, that when they’re in that chapter of life, anything that’s challenging—emotionally or physically—they go, “Oh, it must be menopause.”

Gigi: Yeah.

Makena: “It must be menopause.”

Gigi: Or perimenopause.

Makena: Yeah.

Gigi: It’s really unbelievable.

Makena: Yeah. So there’s like a 15-year span or something where everything must be perimenopause or menopause.

And again, we’re laughing and making light of that, but of course, some of that is probably true.

And on the other hand, why is it important that we don’t just label everything, “Oh, that’s perimenopause. Oh, that’s menopause”? What does that do that’s not good?

Gigi: Honestly, it becomes an excuse a little bit.

We have a client in our mastermind, and I think she just went to the doctor. Same thing, they said that maybe she was going into menopause.

We were having this conversation, and some issue or problem came up, and I saw her go to make it about menopause.

I said, “Don’t do that. This is something you need to work on.”

She laughed and laughed and laughed. She said, “Oh my gosh, you’re right. I was just going to write it off to this is menopause.”

In that moment, I said, “That’s where you’re going to have to be really, really careful,” because it’s just kind of like, “Oh, okay, that’s it,” and, “Oh, that’s a bad experience.”

Then there’s a collective agreement when we get something like this. Because it is such a topic now, and granted, of course, it needs to be attended to in a way that people have a framework for understanding it and have the kind of support they need emotionally and also physically—medically, how they take care of themselves.

Makena: Yeah, there’s so much I want to go into there.

But first, I think it’d be great to just share a little bit of your story.

Not because it’s the typical story—because again, everybody’s experience is different—but just because it is your experience and you have gone through this.

So what—yeah, if you can think back to—Your menopause experience.

Gigi: I remember my menopause experience.

Of course, I remember it as an emotional time, definitely.

The interesting thing is, when I was going through it, there was a doctor in Houston, and he was one of the beginning doctors—Dr. Hotzi—I had heard about through some people.

He was the first person who really started tapping into the whole menopausal time and bioidentical hormones and everything. He made it super popular, and he wrote a book about it.

I heard about him, and I went to him. I went on the bioidentical hormones for about six to eight months. It made a big difference for me. I felt great. I lost weight.

But I did some research and really didn’t feel like it was the right thing to stay on them, so I went off of them.

Of course, I had ups and downs during this time.

The other thing from my—

I didn’t have any stories. My mother didn’t pass on a lot of stories about her menopause. With my friends, some of us were going through it at the same time, and we had different experiences.

The things about hot flashes and things like that—I had very few. I mean, hardly any.

When I did a little research about it, I saw a huge part of it is how you take care of yourself.

I’ve always been a healthy eater. We have a pretty healthy lifestyle, even though sometimes I go completely off.

That made a huge difference.

For me, the big thing is I just didn’t buy into the belief that menopause was going to be horrible for me.

The other thing I see at this period of time is that it’s almost a moment in time. It is a time to get your attention.

It is a time to look deeper in. I think anything that’s out of alignment comes up during this time.

The other thing I had that was an incredible gift is I had my work. My work—I’m always looking at what’s next for me because that’s what I’m doing for my clients.

I’m always looking at that—evolving and evolving.

Those are some of the benefits for me of why maybe it wasn’t such a huge ordeal for me.

Makena: Yeah, so just to kind of recap those, and we’ll go deeper into these and some other things as well.

You didn’t have a big story or you hadn’t sort of been told and been a part of this narrative that menopause is this really difficult thing. It’s this terrible experience.

Things are just going to keep getting worse.

The other one you said was your lifestyle. You ate healthy, you took care of yourself. That probably played a role.

Then third was that you had your work in terms of really being able to look and see what was next and see this as a, maybe more of an evolution and a transition as opposed to just, again, the beginning of the end or something.

Gigi: Right.

Makena: Because I hear this with women too, “Oh, my body’s falling apart,” and all of this.

If you create that story, then yeah, that’s what’s going to happen.

Your body is going through profound changes. On the other side of that, for us women that are older, we can tell you that if you take care of yourself, it is actually an awakening to a super great time in your life.

That mindset of knowing that it’s almost like a rebirth is so important to get through it in a way that’s conscious instead of unconscious.

Gigi: Because what happens is women step into their power at this time.

You know, at the age when women go through menopause, and it starts for women at different times—I think for me, mine was pretty late. I think it was around maybe 55 when I really completed.

And in that time, you really step into who you are. It’s kind of like shedding everything you’ve been in your life up to this point, which has kind of been about everybody else, and now coming in more into who you are.

Makena: Hmm. I love that perspective.

I actually want to share something that I came across because we’ve been in this conversation, you and I, for a long time.

So when I saw this, I thought it was really interesting. It was on Instagram, and the handle of the woman who posted it is Stephanie with a P-H, so S-T-E-P-H-A-N-I-E, and then Stephanie Nosco, N-O-S-C-O. That’s her Instagram handle.

She posted Menopause: A Chinese Medicine Perspective, and I really thought this was interesting.

Obviously, Chinese medicine, for those of you who aren’t super familiar, has been around for thousands and thousands of years.

And this is what they believe around menopause.

They say the uterus has a unique connection to the heart through the meridian known as the bao mai, literally translated as the uterus vessel.

Each month, blood comes from the heart through the bao mai and settles into the uterus, providing nourishment for potential life and/or menses.

Around the age of 49, or whatever that age is for you, the flow through this channel and others begins to reverse direction.

So it moves from the uterus to the heart.

Instead of blood flow going down, it’s going up.

And this new flow causes profound changes on a physical, emotional, and spiritual level.

So they call this the Second Spring—menopause—because it represents a new time in life when women receive initiation into more intuitive capacities of the heart.

Because the heart holds all of our spirit and soul’s mandate, some postmenopausal women report they’re more connected to their true selves without the overwhelming emotional flux that comes with menstruation each month.

Some women find they’re more connected to their truth and less fearful of speaking it unapologetically.

There’s a little bit more. I think it’s interesting to share, though.

In addition, a major flow of energy known as the microcosmic orbit begins to flow in the opposite direction, sometimes called the water path.

The water path brings about more creativity, intuition, and wisdom.

It tonifies blood that was previously used for menstruation, bringing it back to the heart.

So there’s just this major reorganization.

And it says it may be uncomfortable to transition—with sleep disturbances, hot flashes, heightened or irregular emotions, and poor digestion.

So be patient with your body and avoid turning frustration inward as much as possible, as anger can exacerbate symptoms.

If there’s unresolved anger and frustration, it’s going to be highlighted.

If there’s any internalized shame and guilt, it may also arise, as these pertain to the liver.

Also fear and anxiety.

So anything, basically, that’s been there under the surface that hasn’t been addressed comes to the surface in this transitionary time.

Then she has more—you can read the post if you’d like, we can link to it in the show notes—about breathing and meditating and supporting your diet and different things that you can do.

But I just remember when I read that, I was like, “Oh, this—we’ve been saying something similar from our perspective.”

And then to hear it from a Chinese medicine perspective was really, really interesting.

Gigi: Well, you know, I’m going to share a quote from Kim. She’s a—what would you say? A sex therapist, I guess. Or sex coach.

She says in one of her podcasts that the Western world—we’re the ones that make it such a big deal.

Most other cultures, some cultures, don’t even pay attention to it.

And, of course, like the Eastern perspectives you’re talking about here, they see the wisdom in it.

They recognize that it’s a time of change, discomfort, and things not being the same, but also that if you ride that wave, it’s such a powerful time to fully step into who you are.

And as she said, not having that up-and-down emotional experience that you have when you’re having your period every month.

Makena: Absolutely.

You know, it’s interesting. I’m going through pregnancy right now, obviously, and it’s very, very different than menopause—probably the opposite experience in some ways.

But I feel like there’s some overlap in the sense that it’s this thing happening in your body, and it’s overwhelming a lot of the time.

There are all these different symptoms, and you feel different all the time.

But we have such a view—it’s interesting going through pregnancy and experiencing both the beautiful and the challenging aspects.

Culturally, there’s this view that pregnancy is this beautiful thing.

It’s like, “Oh, it’s this beautiful time, you’re creating life, you’re birthing life.”

Some people go through a lot. Some women go through—excuse my French—but hell, with nausea the whole pregnancy or whatever that might be.

Hormones changing, postpartum, all kinds of things.

And yet the overall lens is still that it is this beautiful time.

I think that’s what we’re missing a little bit with menopause.

You’re going to go through what you’re going to go through. It may be quite challenging.

But that’s what I loved about that post and what you’re saying, Gigi.

It is this transitionary time into something really profound and beautiful, which is your wisdom years.

It’s a different way of walking through the world without that emotional volatility in the same way—at least once you get through it.

There’s got to be wisdom to it because it’s what our bodies do.

We go through puberty when we’re young, and all the hormones are coming in.

Gigi: Totally.

Makena: And that’s challenging. Super challenging for many.

Gigi: Very challenging.

Makena: Yeah. And now they’re leaving, right? They’re changing and leaving when we go through—

Gigi: Exactly.

Makena: Yeah.

So just, again, reframing this.

What are you—? I could even see someone maybe doing some journaling around that.

What are you letting go of? What are you stepping into?

Whatever is arising in you—

That’s how I feel about periods, honestly. That’s a whole other topic.

How challenging that can be for many women, including myself at times, having very challenging cycles.

In that, I found that the emotional component of that time of the month—PMS, mood swings—it’s often not that something out of the blue is showing up.

It’s often that something underneath hasn’t been fully looked at, or I haven’t been fully honest with myself about.

And then I’m more in the emotion of it—I can’t push it down.

I have to really sit there and look at it and be with it.

Now, that’s not always true. Sometimes it’s just a reaction.

But I have found that it’s a bringing to the surface.

I wonder if menopause—I think that’s kind of what the post was saying—can be the same way.

If there’s anything you haven’t looked at, this is the time.

Gigi: Absolutely. I think, you know, we had in here that if there’s anything out of alignment at this time, your body’s going to show you. That’s physically or emotionally or both.

It is this— I think if we resist it, then you don’t really use it properly, you know, to honor your body during this time.

As we tell our women, if you need to quit for a day, then you quit for a day. You honor what’s going on and just understand that this too shall pass.

But if you resist it, then it sticks. And then it makes it just a much worse experience.

I think also it’s really an important time to move the body. To move the body and, as we said, to really check your diet.

And, as you’re saying, journal. Dig deep.

What is calling to you?

What are you longing for that you might not be doing?

Or what are you longing to let go of that’s been in your life up until this point?

This is a reinvention time. If you use it that way, it’s a super exciting time—on, of course, the other side.

Makena: Absolutely.

So really, again, there are going to be challenges inherent in this, but can you reframe it and see it also as a gift?

Gigi: Yes.

Going back to Kim Anami, the sex coach—she says that the symptoms are because you’re under stress.

And what happens is we get so under stress that we ignore sexuality.

She really believes and talks about this a lot in her work—that the best way to combat your stress is with sex.

Makena: Put that on a bumper sticker.

Gigi: And at this time, I know women go, “Well, I’m not really interested.”

But here’s something to play around with, because again, that’s a little bit in the belief system.

And you know how that is—when you don’t use it, you lose it.

If you are not being intimate with your partner, or you’re distant, or you’re not taking that time to have time for intimacy—even if it’s not sex, intercourse, but intimacy, touching—what happens is you bring that back alive in yourself.

It’s a powerful time again to be able to go into that in such a way where it really is a relief and a support to you instead of something you want to go away from.

Makena: Yeah, and intuitively, it makes sense, right?

We’re talking about a hormonal shift in the body more than anything, and sex, intimacy—even if that’s self-pleasuring, if you’re not in a relationship—turns on different hormones.

It gets the juices flowing in a different way, for lack of a better word.

I can’t imagine that would be anything but helpful in this time, right?

In terms of, you’re having this big shift in hormones, and maybe not having as many of those things online, but if you could sort of support that by keeping some of these energies flowing, then—

That intuitively makes a lot of sense to me.

But like you said, I do see— you said something about the collective here.

I think it’d be good to describe that a little bit more.

What is it that happens there? What do you mean by the collective?

Gigi: Well, we start talking to everyone and listening to our friends, and they say, “Oh yeah, I have no interest.”

And then you go, “Oh, I don’t either.”

So what happens is, you form an agreement.

Then again, you see your sexuality and your connection, your intimacy, through that lens.

People believe the myth that things are supposed to deteriorate in a relationship.

If you’re in a committed relationship and you’ve been in a marriage a long time, that sex is just not the same, you know? It’s not as good or whatever.

And people believe that.

Makena: Or if you’re single, same thing—that you’re going to be less vibrant, less sexual, and all of that over time.

Gigi: And so in that, we buy into this idea that it deteriorates.

But again, if we tend to these areas—take care of our mind, body, our relationships—at every age, then what happens is, again, it’s a gift.

I work with power couples, and that’s one of the first things I really work on—intimacy is first and foremost.

Because that’s the fuel for the connection for the couple.

That’s the strength, that’s their health, that’s everything.

It has to do with the fuel for their success and everything they do in their life.

And that it can get better.

I’ve watched that time and time again with my couples because they attend to it.

Makena: I really want to do a podcast episode on this with you.

Because I think it’s such an important topic.

Some people listening are going, “Yeah, that makes so much sense. I need to prioritize that more.”

And some people are listening and it’s bringing up stuff.

I just know from working with people—they feel resistant.

They’re like, “I don’t want to do that. That’s just not important to me.”

So there are so many nuances we could go into here.

But just for the sake of time, I want to keep us on topic with menopause.

So I think we’ll leave it at that in terms of the sex and intimacy part.

But there’s a little nudge for some of you—can you prioritize that more in this time, with yourself and/or with a partner?

Gigi: Yes.

Makena: So, you’re talking about this being a gift.

There’s this retraining of the brain we’re describing here.

Instead of looking at what doesn’t work about this—because it’s going to be there—it’s, “What is the beauty in this? What is the gift in this?”

I mean, I’ve gone through plenty of ups and downs in this pregnancy physically.

And in that, that’s what I keep getting to do.

“Okay, this is a beautiful thing. I’m so excited.” Of course.

And it’s a transition. It’s bringing stuff to the surface to clear.

Just really choosing my lens that I put on it, instead of going, “Oh my God, this has been so hard.”

So it’s a similar thing here.

Gigi: Yeah. I mean, in many ways, what— it’s a maturing, right?

Makena: Yeah, absolutely.

So we’ve talked about kind of this collective belief around menopause.

How do you see this play out in the day-to-day with women?

Gigi: Well, we hear it.

We hear it in our clients when they first go to the doctor and get told.

And then from that moment on, what I start to see is, of course, they have—

Now they have a name to put to something that they’re feeling, which is important.

Otherwise, maybe we worry a lot, wondering, “What is going on?” Because I feel so different.

The other thing we touched on is getting together and agreeing in such a way that, “It’s just awful, and it’s going to be awful.”

Instead of getting together and being real.

Saying, “Hey, I’m having a difficult time here. It’s really uncomfortable. Things are changing. I feel scared. I don’t know what to do.”

Sharing that.

But not having to agree that that’s the way it is for everyone.

Anytime we get these collective views where everybody starts agreeing on something, it’s always time to step back and go, “Okay, what’s the truth here?”

We can be part of the conversation, but we want to do it consciously.

We don’t want to go unconsciously into it.

That’s what I see often happen—it becomes an unconscious, “Oh, that’s why this is happening,” or, “Oh, I can’t do this because of this.”

Makena: Yeah.

Gigi: Or that, “I feel this way,” or, “I’m acting this way because I’m in menopause.”

And that’s why I say the excuse is—it gives us an excuse.

We get to be, “Oh, you know, I can be a little tacky or mean or whatever to my partner. I’m in menopause right now.”

That’s where the consciousness of being—sharing what you’re feeling, what’s going on—but don’t believe in the story behind it.

Makena: Yeah, yeah, that’s super important.

So, in your conversations—

Gigi: And the story that it’s like—it’s a dead end.

Makena: Yeah.

Gigi: Or something that’s never going to pass.

Makena: Yeah.

So, in the conversations then with other people, it’s really about being aware of that—how you’re talking about this time, how you’re—

Like you said, a label can be really empowering on the one hand.

Sometimes it’s like, “Okay, I know what’s going on. It’s a normal thing. It’s not just me.” That can be really empowering.

It can be a great jumping-off point for looking for solutions.

Like, “Okay, if I’m going through menopause and these are the kinds of symptoms I’m having, and there are other people out there that have gone through this—”

I mean, one of our clients specializes in this, right?

She’s—

Gigi: Right.

Makena: Menopause and chapter two.

This is really her brilliance.

So, there are lots of people out there sharing resources, information.

Using it as a jumping-off point to look for solutions.

And, of course, some days being like, “Oh, okay, it’s just one of those days. I’m just off today. Maybe there’s a hormonal component or whatever it is going on.”

That’s, I think, an empowering way to use it, like you’re saying.

Talking about it as a transition—what’s the gift in this? What’s coming to the surface that wants to change?

But not getting caught up in all the ways that it’s a limitation.

All the ways that it could hold you back, or it’s going to go on and just—life is going to go downhill from here.

Maybe that’s a nice—

Gigi: Or your sex life.

Makena: Yeah.

Gigi: Or, you know, all of those things.

Makena: Oh my gosh.

All the collective myths that we hear and see.

Thank goodness for podcasts and for, you know, media in many ways.

I mean, you have to be selective and find the things that are right for you.

But I do think there’s so much good information out there that even if you are surrounded by people that are all talking negatively about something—

You know, I’ve had women say, “There are no great relationships out there,” because they just don’t see them in their life, right?

Or, “Everybody’s relationship deteriorates after a certain time.”

Or whatever that might be.

If you don’t have examples in your life, then go out and look for them.

You can really—you can find that out there.

I think a nice place to close, Gigi—first, I want to hear if you have anything else that we haven’t covered.

Gigi: Yeah.

Makena: And secondly—well, let’s start there.

Is there anything else?

Gigi: Yeah.

I do want to say that we touched on this, but really look at this as a time of reinvention.

Use this as a time of ultimate self-care.

What a fun thing—you have this opportunity.

Things are going on in your body—carve out ways to take care of yourself.

Attend to yourself in such a way that you really take time.

Go to the spa, get massages, do the things, eat healthy.

Because, you know, there are so many beautiful women these days.

More and more and more women—you see them aging incredibly.

Gorgeous in their fifties, their sixties, their seventies.

And during this time, your kids might be out of the house.

A lot of times, by this time, the kids are out of the house.

So it’s a time for you to really have time for yourself and for your partner, if you’re in a relationship.

Take this time and, as we said, look and see—what do you want?

What are you longing for?

Take lots of time to journal.

Maybe you start doing one little new thing, or another new thing, to try things out.

Use it as a time to really explore.

Makena: I love that.

And that’s where, if you are curious about something like our retreat—or going to a different retreat or something like that—that’s a great opportunity.

Give yourself the gift, at this time, to really step out and self-reflect.

See what is coming up.

How do you move through anything that’s there that’s not serving you?

And really, what do you want next?

Gigi: Yeah.

Makena: So, where I wanted to close—Gigi, you’re well past menopause now and have been for some time, as you mentioned.

Because there is this belief that this is kind of like a downturn in your life or something like that—Could you just speak from the other side, for women?

Now that you’re through it, what’s different? What’s great about it?

Or also, maybe there are challenges.

But this chapter in your life, on the other side of menopause.

Is there anything you want to speak to there to just give women a different perspective?

Gigi: Yeah.

I think that it is a time—like I said—where you become more of yourself.

Especially for me—my kids have been out of the house for quite a while now.

You get to become and grow the life that maybe you’ve always wanted to live.

It’s just so different in the way you feel.

You don’t have those huge emotional ups and downs.

I have emotional ups and downs, but they are very, very different.

They have a different feeling about them.

And the biggest thing—I don’t think the world is going to come to an end.

Makena: What do you mean by that?

Gigi: I remember when I used to have my period, I would feel like things were going to be like this forever.

That was always the feeling.

And that maybe sometimes I dramatized and felt that for a little bit, but honestly, in my soul, I don’t feel that at all.

There’s a different perspective.

I think also, you have the chance to completely recreate yourself physically.

Our bodies are so wise and so amazing.

If you look at all the different women that you’ve been up to this point, you can become almost anything you want to be these days, as long as your health is good.

That’s the biggest thing—our health.

Makena: Yeah.

Gigi: How you take care of yourself.

Makena: I know that you’re a role model to so many women in this.

Really continuing to go for your life, reinvent yourself.

Take care of yourself.

And there are so many beautiful role models out there these days, like you’re saying.

Whether that be celebrities or just women you see on social media where it’s like, “Wow.”

Super fit, or they go into something in their later years and they master it.

It’s just—again, what do you want that next chapter of your life to be about?

Gigi: Yes.

Makena: I love that perspective.

Thank you for sharing.

Gigi: And like you said, the wisdom part, too.

Something about the way you see life changes completely.

Of course, I’m human, and I get off, but there’s just this much more expansive view about life.

It’s not so tunnel-vision.

That’s just a really, really nice place to see and be.

Makena: So reframing this as really entering your wisdom years.

I think that’s a really beautiful way of putting it.

Your wisdom years, your third act—whatever you want to call it.

Second chapter, third chapter.

Well, beautiful.

Thank you so much for sharing your wisdom and your experience with us.

And for your questions, everyone listening, we hope you enjoyed this.

If you have a woman in your life that’s going through this time that you feel would really benefit from this conversation, please, please, please share it with them.

That’s one of the greatest gifts we can give the people in our lives.

If something really touched you, pass it on.

And also, it’s a great gift to us who create this podcast, to help us continue to spread the word.

So please share the podcast.

If you haven’t already, subscribe.

Gigi: Yeah.

Makena: Every subscription counts, every follow.

Gigi: Like it.

Makena: Like it. Rate it.

All the things. Anything you can do on that front is super supportive for us.

Gigi: Yeah.

Makena: So, thank you.

Gigi: Thank you.

Makena: And we’ll see you next time.

Gigi: All right. Bye.

Makena: Bye.