Makena: Hello, everyone.

Gigi: Hello, Makena, how are you? I can see you too. 

Makena: I’m good. You’re everyone today. You’re everyone I can see, but I know there are other people listening. 

Gigi: Hello to everyone else who we can’t see.

Makena: Yeah, absolutely. Welcome back to another episode. Today, we wanted to talk about tapping into your inner wisdom—how to really tune in, tap in, and get clarity answers about something, direction, or whatever that might be for you. 

What is it that you normally observe around this, Gigi? 

Gigi: Yeah, what I often see is people trying to figure it out in their heads, right? They’ve got lots of ideas, trying to make their life or their plan around what’s in their mind, which makes sense, right? 

As we go out and do things and gather information, of course, we go, “OK, now let’s make our plan. It’s from our head.”

But what we want to talk about today is the distinction that, before you get to that point of the plan, it’s really good to tap into your inner wisdom. 

I think what we’re going to share today is that we’ve shared in different ways in different episodes, but we continue to bring this point in because it has so many different subtleties to it. 

It is truly one of the things that I think is very different about what we do in our work.

Makena: Absolutely, yeah. I really experienced this for myself when I was trying to get clear on, well, first of all, what the panic attacks were about back when I was having those in 2016-2017. What was going on? Why was I having that experience? 

I had a sense that something needed to change, probably around my career, but I was really struggling. 

So, I went out and hired different coaches. I thought, “Okay, I’m going to go figure this out.” 

I wasn’t going to go to you—you’re my mom—so I joined a mastermind and did some different programs, thinking, “I’m going to figure out what I want to do.”

I remember distinctly this experience of being on a call with one of the facilitators. 

They were great programs; I got a lot out of them in different ways. But I remember having this feeling that she kept suggesting things or having different ideas about how I could grow. 

You would think that would be helpful, right? 

I was in an online marketing business at the time, doing copywriting and online marketing strategy, and we talked about growing that and how I would do it. I was pretty clear that wasn’t it. I knew, on some level, that wasn’t the direction. 

We talked about other things, but none of it really landed somehow. I couldn’t figure out why—it seemed like that would have been the solution.

It wasn’t until you really supported me. We’ve told that story before on the podcast, where you asked me questions, and over a couple of days, you listened in such a way. I don’t exactly know how you’d describe it, but you created this space where I saw so clearly what it was I wanted and what the direction was. 

That’s what we want to talk about—how does that happen? 

How can you connect to your inner wisdom? So, from this lens of tapping into your inner wisdom, what was happening there that was different, Gigi?

Gigi: Well, first of all, as you mentioned, there are so many amazing coaches. I think there are different kinds of coaches for different points of where you are in your business, life, or what you want to create. 

For you, I think you were looking to make that transition or shift. 

A lot of people come to me when they’re already very, very successful, but they know there’s something deep inside that’s not being actualized. There’s something in them they want to bring into the world and into their businesses.

In the way I worked with you, as you said, I practiced a skill I teach all the coaches we certify, which is to sit in that seat of the coach, ask open-ended questions, and be curious. 

I did not put what I saw in there at all; I waited. 

For me, in all my years of experience—38 years—the bottom line is everybody knows what they want. I truly believe that. 

If you sit with people long enough, allow them to really connect and talk, and just be there without trying to give advice or make them see what they “should” do, something comes alive in people, and they start to remember who they are.

In those few days, all I did was listen deeply and then give feedback. My feedback was always, “Where did you light up? Where did I see the most energy?” 

When I shared that, it wasn’t to make a plan. We need that time to sit in the curiosity, start to discover, and see what we want. 

Now, you have a guide, but for those listening who maybe don’t have a guide, we should talk about how you start to do that on your own. 

But let’s share a couple of stories first.

Makena: Yeah, absolutely. It’s funny; I was just on our mastermind call this morning for our Wealthy World Changers mastermind, demonstrating one of the processes that the women were going to do with each other. 

I was coaching one of the women, and she said it was so interesting because I would ask a question and then wait. 

She’d initially say, “I don’t know,” or she wasn’t sure, and I would just wait or ask the question differently. 

She said, “It was so interesting—the space you created, the way you’d ask the questions. Then, I would see.”

It was such a different experience than in a typical conversation where people are like, “Well, what about this?” or “You could do this.” 

People mean well, and there’s a time and a place for brainstorming and ideating.

But when you’re really looking for that deeper clarity about something, it might be, like Gigi was saying, a career pivot. 

For some people, it might not be—it might be a bigger dream or a feeling that there’s something you want to shift, change, or evolve, and you’re just not sure what it is. 

So, in that sense, this is a different approach than what most people experience, especially in their day-to-day conversations and often in coaching containers as well.

There’s also a time and a place for strategy, and we’ll talk about that in a moment. 

But first, I really want to hear the story of how you changed a man’s life in, like, an hour or something…

Gigi: It was one minute. I’ve had this happen many times where people reach out and say, “In one conversation, in one minute, my gosh, I saw everything.” 

I’m in that space of curiosity, and in my feedback, if I see where somebody lights up, I share that with them. I always tease my clients, telling them I don’t listen to them—I only watch for their lights. I follow those lights.

I had an experience several years ago. My daughter Tiffany invited me to a men’s brunch in Austin. They’d never invited women before, so we went. Men had the Sunday brunch and talked about everything. 

Everyone was introducing themselves, and I said very simply: 

“Basically, what I do is help people see who they are, what they want, or the next evolution of their business by asking open-ended questions and watching for where they light up.” 

“When they light up, I share that with them because it taps into their aliveness. That aliveness is the window or key to their direction at that moment. Aliveness can change over time.”

“I help my clients follow that to create exceptional lives, businesses, and families.” 

That’s all I said. 

Do you want to read the note he sent me, Makena?

Makena:  Yeah. When did he send this to you?

Gigi: First of all, my daughter was at the “Traffic and Conversion” event two months later. He came up to her and said, “Listen, remember me? That day listening to your mother changed my life.” 

She said, “You should share it with her.” 

A couple of months later, he shared this with me.

Makena: Here’s what he wrote: 

“When we met, I was suffering through severe burnout that ultimately lasted about 18 months. I tried everything to recover, but nothing worked. You and I met only briefly, but something you said really resonated.” 

“You talked about helping entrepreneurs identify what brings them energy and aliveness. Though I’d heard people talk about doing what lights you up before, the way you described it was different. I left that brunch and immediately began making changes.” 

“As a result, I went from feeling disoriented, partly depressed, and irritated with myself to feeling full of energy and excitement toward my next project. Now, I’m about to sell 50% of my business, transition from CEO into the product visionary role, and pursue what I believe is my calling in life.” 

“I just wanted to say thank you. You made a huge impact on me in our short conversation.” 

– Andy, entrepreneur in Austin.

Gigi: After this, I reached out to him. He ended up selling his business, making far more than he ever thought possible, and transitioned to his next thing. 

I met him in Austin; we had coffee, and he was super happy about it.

Makena: I love that story. It illustrates this approach of tapping into your inner wisdom through the lens of aliveness.

Gigi: Yeah. At every moment, your vitality is either increasing or decreasing. 

When it’s increasing, pay attention. We walk our clients through this to help them build something aligned with them. 

The distinction we’re trying to make is there are many business models and ways to go in life. If I come and just put one of those on you, and it’s not the right timing or alignment, it won’t work. 

That first part is discovering what you want. 

What’s the lifestyle you want? How do you want to earn? What truly resonates? What brings you alive? When you talk about it, you’re energized, and you have vitality. 

Or, if it’s a certain product you want to create, where is it in the world that you feel most like yourself and the most alive? 

Those are the little pieces of your puzzle that start to connect you to that inner wisdom.

And from there, you can find the right system, business plan, and all those other pieces.

Makena: That’s so key because, as we said before, there’s a time and a place for strategy, for action steps—all of that. 

We help our clients with those, but it’s not where we begin because there’s a clarity that needs to come first.

I’d like you to talk a little more about timing because you just mentioned that there’s a timing to things. 

I was reflecting on that earlier as I shared my story. That was also a piece of the puzzle because I remember, with certain coaches, seeing glimpses of a vision, but it felt too big or too far off from where I was, or I just couldn’t see any shape or form of how I’d get from where I was to where I wanted to be.

So timing—I feel like there’s an important piece here. Can you talk a little more about that?

Gigi: Yeah, The timing is that it has to really resonate. There’s always something great about stretching yourself. 

If I really want to do something, and I sit around and wait the next five years and don’t do it… I believe that’s also why we hire guides and coaches, people who support us to get off and get going.

But there are times when I’ll see somebody have an idea, and they’ll go out and start building a business around it. And it didn’t have time to percolate enough for them to really know that this is what they want to do. 

So they build something, and then they’re in the middle of it and go, “Oh my gosh, this is not what I signed up for,” “And there are many parts of this that aren’t really right. They’re not in alignment.”

So, I think it’s really important—we always say to start a project around something. If you see something and you’re curious about it, and you feel like, “You know, this might be my next thing,” then instead of going out there, building a big business, getting investment money, all of that, create a small project. 

Do a project, and make it have a beginning, middle, and end. That will give you so much feedback to see: Are you moving in the right direction?

It also gives you the opportunity to see, “Okay, how do I tweak this?” “Maybe we thought it was this way, but we’re going to change and do it a different way.” 

I think that is such a successful model because then you haven’t committed to something so big that, if you don’t follow through with it, you feel like a failure.

I’ve watched a lot of people go through this and also lose a lot of money, and it really hurt them in terms of feeling like they failed. 

And so it makes them hesitate to go into their next thing. So I highly recommend that if you have something to do, you create some kind of project. 

We’re doing that right now, Makena, with our Beloved Milestones, right? 

We started out with a little baby step. We know where we want to go, but first, we said, “Hey, let’s do this and see what kind of feedback we get.” 

And then we’ll see where we want to put our energy next.

Makena: Can you share what that is? Because people probably have no idea.

Gigi: So, Beloved Milestones is a company that the six of us, my kids and myself, have started. And that is meaningful celebrations. 

So it’s making celebrations, like bachelorette parties or bridal showers, things like that—instead of them just being a celebration.

And a lot of times with bachelorette parties, it’s just about partying and things like that. But then you don’t really connect with who’s there. 

And a lot of times, I think the person that is getting married or is having the bridal shower…

Makena: It could be a 60th birthday party. 

Gigi: We have a lot of different ideas. They don’t really get connected or the recognition, and then also the people that are there don’t really get to share how much that person means to them.

So we’ve developed a lot of different ways to have more conscious and meaningful celebrations to where people—it becomes a moment in time that you remember for the rest of your life, but not just because it was fun, but because it really touched your heart.

Yeah. What else do you have to say about it?

Makena: That’s basically the idea. Gigi has always been so amazing about bringing more meaning into our celebrations as a family. 

So we started doing this for our bachelorettes. You know, all four of your daughters—me and my sisters—are married now. And that’s all been in the last few years. 

So we all had bachelorette parties, and we really brought this into those experiences, where it was more of a little gathering. We had meaningful shares, different things that we did, and different activities to make it a memorable experience in a different way.

We still had a fun party, but we also had the experience of people sharing their wishes for us or answering certain kinds of questions to go deeper. 

And we did that for your 60th birthday, right? We created a whole kind of—whatever you want to call it—ceremony or something like that.

We sat down, I remember, we played music from each decade of your life, and we did these little things and shared different wishes again, visions, and also memories. 

Some of these practices and experiences—you had the idea to turn them into, first of all, these free guides. 

So, if you’re listening to this, we started with just one because of course, start a project like Gigi said.

So, it’s belovedmilestones.com/bachelorette, and that’s our meaningful bachelorette party guide, and it’s free. 

That’s our first little piece to see, “Okay, now we test it, and we see what the reception is like.” Then we’ll take a different kind of celebration and test that one. We’ll see what people want more of, and if it’s something we’re enjoying, and so on and so forth.

So that’s a great example, like you’re saying, Gigi, of taking something and really trying it on, trying it out before you go full steam ahead and decide, “This is the thing.”

So what about—because you said something earlier around, so we were talking about timing and really taking a project—and this is true, by the way. I mean, some people might be listening, and they’re not necessarily trying to start a new business or something like that, right? 

They want to get clear on something else, maybe an evolution of themselves or their personal lives or something like that.

I’m trying to think how this would apply in that case if it’s not necessarily… I mean, it could be something like you’ve always wanted to write a book, or you know you want to get more into your creativity. 

Let’s say that was it. 

So, you know you want to get more into your creativity, and you could still apply the same principle, right? 

Even if it’s not starting a business, you try some different things and try them on to see what really taps into that for you.

Gigi: Yeah. And, same thing—you go and try some things. Maybe you’ve had things in the back of your mind.

I have an old friend that I reconnected with recently, and she was actually at our workshop in Sonoma. She wrote me afterward and said, “After the workshop, I went and signed up for singing lessons because I’ve wanted to do that my whole life.” 

And so, you’ll have those little nudges in your brain, and you go out there and try them, you know, and see if it’s something you really want to add to your life.

So, those little things—like she starts singing again—will really change her. I know she loves to sing; who knows, down the road, she might put on a little show. 

So it really allows you, again, to start to build your life and your time in such a way that you’re spending time doing things that are really in alignment with you.

And when you do that, here’s the thing: when you follow that aliveness, the next step is to follow your curiosity in whatever brings you alive. 

For example, as you said, you want to write a book, and it’s around a certain topic, you say, “Okay, I’m going to use my curiosity and go out there, see what other books are written about that, or who else is doing this, or how that works.”

So, after that spark is in you, you follow that energy into the thing you’re curious about. 

Does that make sense?

Makena: Yeah, it does. It’s kind of like diving deeper, exploring, and following that line of curiosity and aliveness. 

This is really important because, as we always say, clarity comes through action. Inner wisdom doesn’t always come as a breakthrough clarity moment where suddenly the clouds part and everything becomes clear.

I mean, in a sense, that was my experience when you worked with me, with that initial turning point moment—but that’s because I was working with a, you know, 30-something-year master coach at that time, and you were really guiding me through. 

So it was this intensive, kind of two-day experience we had together. You lead these—they’re called Soul Reveals. And in that, yes, I had a kind of clouds-parting moment.

But it doesn’t mean everything stayed clear or that it all stayed the same as I moved forward. But there was that moment. 

It’s not always going to be that way, right? Even when you work with people, sometimes it’s glimpses, it’s glimmers, it’s the beginning—it’s the aliveness, it’s something. Then, people begin to follow that thread, and then more reveals itself.

Gigi: Take the action because we see so many times that people are waiting and waiting, and the action reveals everything to you. 

Like I said, if you move in a direction and realize, “You know, this really is not it.”

Just think of all the brain space that opens up—you’re no longer wondering, you know?

Makena: Yeah, absolutely. I think people get so caught up in wanting the steps to be perfectly clear and laid out ahead of them. 

Or a lot of times, I think it’s the fear of failure, like you were saying earlier. Like, “What happens if I fail?” 

But that’s sort of when you’re setting yourself up to say, “Whatever I do, it has to be the right thing,” or “This has to be the thing.”

What would you say to someone about that? 

Because that comes up a lot when they tap into their inner wisdom, and they think, well, they might get an answer, right? 

And they might be like, “Oh, well, I’m curious about this, or I have energy around this, but what if I do it and it doesn’t work out? What if I fail?”

Gigi: Then you’ll just be quicker on to the next thing, you know? 

And again, you have to consider timing. It depends—do you have a job and don’t have the time? Then, how do you start to carve out the time? 

But if it’s just that it’s fear, you have to look at it like this: you go for it. And when you go for it, if it doesn’t work, then that just makes you so much quicker and closer to what it really is.

If you leave it in the back of your mind and you wait for another year—again, it’s in the back of your mind, running your life instead of you fully being present in your life and really, really going for what you want.

Makena: There’s this concept—I went to a talk at an entrepreneur’s retreat a few years ago, and I wish I remembered what it was called. But basically, it was something like “micro experiments” or “micro iteration” or something. 

It’s a concept in startups, and it’s in design thinking, too, I believe. The idea is to test, to get out there and try, and almost to fail as quickly as you can at something. 

It’s like—try it, see if it works. If it does, keep going; if it doesn’t, switch.

And to do that as quickly as possible, as much of that as possible, to really create this momentum where a business or a project moves forward at such a different speed and with such a different energy than when people are like, “Okay, we’re going to make the whole plan, the business plan, put in every step, check it across all the departments,” and so on. 

Then, the speed at which things happen is very slow.

So it kind of reminds me of that. It’s like—it’s your own version of that.

Gigi: Yeah. And when you use your curiosity, that’s where your innovation comes from. If you wait on it, a lot of times it loses energy. 

But if you go for it, then what happens is—like we’ve talked about in other episodes—the action, and actually going for it, often brings opportunities out of nowhere for you.

But if you wait and hold it and don’t do it for six months, it has a very different energy to it. 

So, using your aliveness and curiosity is where you start to create ideas and innovations. And then when you act on those, you might meet, for example, the publisher who wants to publish your book when you’re on a plane, just talking to somebody.

I’ve had these kinds of experiences so many times through my career, not by ever making a plan. 

My first book, which was published in 2003 in Germany—I didn’t plan that at all. 

I just said, “Oh, I’d love to write a book,” and then, all of a sudden, this woman walked into my life and asked, “Have you written a book?” 

I said, “No.” She went out and got me a book deal. There was no plan for that whatsoever.

The next time my book got published in all the other countries, the same thing happened. It happened through these magical moments because I knew my desire and was following my aliveness.

Makena: So, tapping into your inner wisdom is about asking, “What do you want? What’s your desire?” 

And then, like you’re saying, following that aliveness. 

Sometimes, we can get to that on our own through self-reflection and observing our lives. You might know deep down and just haven’t really admitted it to yourself.

You might even be listening to this podcast episode going, “Okay, I know what the next thing is, or I know what this is.” 

Or, you might be sitting there thinking, “I still have no clue, right?” You go out, and you’re not clear.

So, we’re actually leading a masterclass, and at the time of this recording, it’s about three weeks from now—two or three weeks from now. 

It’s called The Unstoppable Woman, and it’s about how to really step into the version of you that goes after it and creates what you want in every area of your life—whether in your career or business, in your relationships, or in your personal life with yourself—really becoming that unstoppable woman.

In the masterclass, we’ll take you through some exercises and self-reflection to help you start tapping into that inner wisdom even more and really look at those deeper desires. 

Sometimes, we need a space like that, or a coach, or a program, or whatever it might be. 

But this is free, so we recommend you all come to that. The URL for that is wayofthemuse.com/unstoppable. So, definitely, we’d love to see you there.

Gigi: I think just to add to that, you know, with the guide, or assistance, or coming to the masterclass—you can do it on your own. You could absolutely go for it. 

But what we find with the people that we work with or the women that we work with, is that when they step into our world, what happens is it accelerates that change.

And for you, for example, Makena, I’d watched you for years, right? 

Going back and forth, back and forth, back and forth. And when I finally couldn’t stand it anymore, I thought, “I have to just interfere,” and I did that. 

And what happened is, within two to three days, we accelerated what could have taken you another…

Makena:  Oh, my God, I was in it for two years before that. So I could have been there for a lot longer.

Gigi: We just finished our retreat when the women, two months ago—was like, “Okay, I’m going to get on stage.” And she created an event, and then she had a full page in the newspaper. 

All kinds of things happened for her when she made that commitment, and then she had the support of all of us and the other women. 

She could have never imagined that happening within—what—eight weeks.

Makena: Yeah, yeah. It’s to make this distinction that when we’re talking about tapping into your inner wisdom, it’s like, are you going around asking a bunch of people for advice and looking for answers outside of yourself? 

This may even just be in the form of, “Okay, well, is it this strategy or is it that strategy?” or looking at what everybody else is doing and asking, “What should I be doing?” Or you’re trying to make the plan, and you’re planning and planning and planning.

These are all ways that we almost distract from really tuning in, and that’s what we want to really encourage you to do. 

That’s what’s really different about our approach. In the way that we work with people, whether it’s in a free masterclass like this or in one of our programs, we’re giving you ways, tools, questions, and guidance in such a way that you tune into you first. 

And you have these tools—how do you follow your aliveness, how do you follow your curiosity—getting those moments of reflection where someone says to you, “Wow, you really lit up when you talked about that,” and you go, “Oh, that’s interesting,” right?

And it’s like a ping for your subconscious mind. It brings something that was back here in the unconscious realm to the front and turns this light on, and you go, “Oh, maybe that’s a piece for me,” or “Maybe there’s something there.” 

So it starts to create this clarity of desire, this clarity of “What do you want?”

And to your point, Gigi, about your story with your books, that’s where magic starts to happen—or synchronicities, or coincidences, whatever you want to call them. It all starts to happen through that clarity and then taking the action. 

And then there are those moments where, okay, now we need the strategy, now we need certain elements of a plan to get you there, but it all starts from this place.

Yeah, so just noticing; where are you coming from with it?

Gigi: Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

Makena: Well, beautiful. Anything else you want to share on this, Gigi?

Gigi: I think we’ve, you know, shared enough to where if you have something, as I said, create a project and go for it. 

And if not, get support. Come to our masterclass. 

It’ll also wake you up to a few things. You’ll see things differently. 

And just get out there and go for your dreams.

Makena: As we’re approaching this time of year when people are really reflecting on… Can you believe it’s almost November? Or it is November. 

And people go, “Okay, wait, last year I said I wanted to do X, Y, Z,” and it’s not to be hard on ourselves, right, but to really go…

I love this question: If you were an unstoppable woman, what would you be doing differently, or what would be different in your life?

And if you imagine, what would that be? 

Then come to our masterclass, and we’ll talk to you more about that and how to start stepping into it so that you make 2025 the year that you come to the end of next year, and you’re like, “Oh yeah, I did it.” 

At least, either you really got some things started, and you’re so proud of yourself, or you accomplished huge things you’ve been wanting to do for a long time in whatever area of life that might be.

So, wayofthemuse.com/unstoppable. 

We’d love to see you there, have the opportunity to work with you live on a call, and do Q&A. 

We’re going to have a panel of women on the call who are doing incredible things in the world and sharing their stories of how they’ve become more and more unstoppable in their own lives and businesses.

Thank you for being here.

Gigi: Thank you. Thank you, everyone, for listening.

Makena: See you there! Bye.

Makena: Hello, everyone.

Gigi: Hello.

Makena: We are talking about a fun topic today, which is babies or business: Can I really have it all?

Gigi: Yes. That’s a good one. That’s one you get a lot in your age group, right?

Makena: Yes, and it’s one that I personally felt challenged by a couple of years ago when I was really approaching the age at which I thought, “Okay, it’s time to start really thinking about this. Am I going to have kids?” I always thought I wanted them, but then I went through this whole process of questioning that. 

So, we thought it would be interesting to have this dialogue from the perspective of someone who has been in that question or was in that question previously. And then also from…

…with you, Gigi, who has five kids. What was your approach to this question?

Gigi: I didn’t think about this question. I started very young, and then I just kept having babies. I integrated them into my life as I went along. So we can talk about that.

Makena: Yes, five kids over 20 years—very different perspective, very different approach. And I grew up with that. Yet, for whatever reason, I decided to wait longer, and time just kind of went by. 

We were planning to start sooner, and then COVID happened. We felt like we lost a couple of years there. We wanted to travel more and do some different things.

Like I said, I really came to this point of, “Okay, now I feel like it’s time to start thinking about this.” 

And then I went, “Well, do I really want kids, or have I just always said I want kids?” 

I had to sit with that question: Was this just a default response, or is it what I really want?

Ultimately, I did find that, yes, I definitely want kids.

But what would you say, Gigi? 

I know we had someone on at one point for an on-air coaching session, and you asked her a question that I think was really helpful for people to start looking at whether they want children or not.

Gigi: Yes, and I think the first question is, “Do you want kids?” You really have to ask yourself that. I think sometimes we have an intuitive sense—we really know, yes. And sometimes I see women say no, and then they find the right partner, and they say yes. I do think it sometimes has to do with, “Do I have the right partner?” “Do I have the right person to do this with?” 

The question I asked her was, she had a lot of things she wanted to do that were important. One of them was earning a certain amount of money. I said, “Okay, if you had all of those things in place, would you have children?” And her answer was absolutely yes. 

So, for me, that’s when you really know, and then we need to look and see, “Okay, how do we create those parameters that are important to you?” Maybe you can’t create all of them right away, but knowing that creates a plan for you. Then, how do we set you up so you can stop putting the pause button on and go for it?

I’ve helped many women make that choice, and I don’t think any of them have regretted it. 

There are many children in the world because women came to me hesitant, and I said, “Do you really want them?” If they did, I said, “Go for it.” 

And for some of those women, they didn’t have partners at the time. I encouraged them, if they were at an age, to figure out a system to have a baby. Then, they found a partner afterward.

Makena: I love that. There’s so much I want to dig into there. We might meander a bit in this episode because there are a lot of different directions this could go. People are sitting in many different places. 

By the way, some of you listening may have made the choice not to have kids and may feel clear and good about that, and that’s fabulous. It’s about tuning into whatever’s right for you.

We wanted to have this conversation for those who are maybe on the fence or struggling with the question, especially around career. 

You did mention, Gigi, that some people are struggling because they’re not sure if they’re with the right person. Is that what you’re saying? There’s a question mark in their minds, and they don’t know if they want kids. Then, often, that changes when they meet the right person.

Gigi: Yes. I think that’s an important question to ask. 

The person you have a child with—if you’re in a relationship and you’re not sure if it’s the relationship you’ll stay in or if you’ll grow together—that’s a serious question. 

Whoever that person is, they’ll be your partner and the parent of your child.

Makena: I do think it’s really an important question though, like you’re talking about. If you’re in a relationship with someone and you’re really questioning, “Do I want kids?” And if you’re honest with yourself, the answer is, “Yes, I want kids, but I’m not 100 percent sure if this is the person I want to have kids with.”

That’s really important to look at, to separate those two, because I think what happens is people merge them together, and they’re in this questioning. But if they’re deeply honest with themselves, they might be clear on one and not the other. 

So if that’s the case, you want to separate those two questions and say, “Yes, I want kids,” if you’re clear about that. “No, I’m not sure if this is the partner.” And then really see, in terms of what do you want long term? And of course, it depends on your age and if there’s urgency in the matter in terms of really getting started. 

That can be a really difficult thing if you’re in a relationship with someone, you love them, and you’re questioning this. But you really want to look at the long term, because unfortunately, as women, we do have a timeline, right?

We do have to think about these things and really consider, in the long term of your life, the choice to have kids is a much bigger choice than whether to stay with that partner or not. So that’s one.

But then for the people who are more in the situation of, okay, they’re with a partner, they’ve been questioning it because, and I do feel like for a lot of women, there’s either a financial consideration—this happens for men too; I hear this one a lot for men—but there’s a financial consideration or, for me, it was really that I felt like I was hitting my stride in my career.

I was like, “Oh, I feel like my career is starting to really take off in a different way. I feel really aligned with what I’m doing.” 

Even with my modeling and things like that, which has a very physical component to it—modeling is, you know, not that I’m trying to be a size two or anything like that, but still, birthing a baby is a whole process and changes your body. And there’s a time where things are going to be different.

So I really struggled with this: Is this going to totally take me out of my game in terms of my career? 

And that sounds… when you put it that way, it kind of sounds shallow, and maybe it is a little bit, but it was also a real consideration for me. I worked hard at my career for many years and decades. I don’t know if I was truly questioning whether I wanted kids.

I knew deep down I did, but I just struggled with the question of, “Can I have it all?” I think that’s a good way to put it. Can I really have it all?

Gigi: So, you talked about several different things there. Do you want to go into the one about your career? Do you want to talk about that first?

Makena: Yeah. What do you see there? I mean, obviously I’ve worked through this, but if someone else were coming to you in a similar position, what would you say?

Gigi: Again, what is it that you’re hesitant about regarding your career? What is it that you think you’re not going to be able to do?

Is it going to make your life more complex in the way your day-to-day goes? Absolutely. Did it do that when you got your dog, Chloe?

Makena: Yes, definitely.

Gigi: For a short amount of time, it did, right? And remember I told you when you were thinking about having kids, I said, “Get a dog first,” right?

Because then you started to see what it was like to take care of something other than yourself. 

And then you saw the joy she brought into your life, and you wouldn’t have it any other way. 

Not to relate children to dogs, but in some ways, it’s the same.

It’s that initial period when you’re thinking and questioning, going through all these reasons, like you were with modeling, which again is one perspective. 

I believe that if you want to continue to grow your career, yes, you’re going to have to set up systems, whether it’s childcare or other support, so you can focus on your career.

And is that possible? I think it’s really possible. I think a lot of people are doing it in the world. 

You have to look and see, again, what’s the lifestyle, the system that you want when you have children. As you know, I traveled with my kids. They were with me. They had a nanny, and that’s how I designed my life.

That’s what worked for me because I would have never been a great stay-at-home mother all the time in a million years. That’s not my calling. 

I love my children and wanted to have kids, but I also wanted the freedom to build and grow my business and to do what I wanted to do in the world. That’s how I set it up.

Was it always easy? Absolutely not. Through ups and downs in my life, it’s been very challenging, but I can’t imagine going through those challenges without having my children as part of the reason why I’m doing it now.

Makena: Yes. Looking at what you want there instead of maybe what you don’t want, kind of like you’re saying, is a really great place to begin. 

If it all worked out, if your career continued to thrive and grow and you did have children, if that’s something you feel deep down you do want, then what would that be? How would you love that to go?

And then really seeing how do you start to move in that direction, organize around that. 

The other thing I’ve seen a lot and you’ve talked about is that having a child is kind of a forcing function. 

A lot of times it’s where people’s careers do take off because they have to, or people figure things out they never thought they would figure out.

Their life begins to organize around the fact that this baby is showing up and there’s a due date, and you have to figure it out.

Gigi: Yes. And that is the stepping over, the stepping through the unknown, right? Just having faith and commitment because it’s something you really want. 

Then, like I said, going, “Well, let me think this through if I can. What would make this transition supportive for me in my career? How do I want to grow?” If you can do that ahead of time, that’s great. People can’t always do that.

Those of us who had our children and then figured it out as we went, we know that you just figure it out. You figure it out. 

I was very blessed to have a nanny and everything, but there are ways to get support from family. If you start thinking of it as, instead of a problem, what are the solutions for me to create this in my life? As much as possible, set up the systems. 

The other thing about life is that life is unpredictable, and I think that’s part of the thing with having children. We want it to be so perfect, boxed up, and know how it’s going to work, but it’s one of those things in life where you have no idea. No idea.

Makena: Yes, we think we want it to be perfect and boxed up, but the reality is we probably don’t. I mean, maybe some people do, and again, if that’s the choice for you, then that’s the choice for you. 

But for those of you who are thinking, “I would, if it all was working, have children. I’m just struggling with this question of career or having it all,” then in that there’s…

There’s this piece of, we think we want it all perfect, but people also get bored, I see, and they get set in their ways. This is from what I see with people—and I haven’t had my own children yet, we’re in the process of trying—but it shakes up their world in the best possible way. It breaks them out of something. 

A dog was a tiny sliver of a glimpse into what that was going to be like. Like you said, it was the perfect thing for us to get the dog a few years ago. You really encouraged me when I was thinking about it.

What was so profound about that—and I don’t think any other example would have really worked other than a pet, an animal—was that she was more responsibility. 

But like you said, the way our lives expanded and grew, and our love expanded and grew, was so much. You could never explain that to someone who’s never owned an animal they really loved, just like I know I haven’t had a child yet. But that’s the same thing parents say to me, which I’m sure is just exponentially even more, that you can’t imagine how it’s going to expand you and expand your life in so many ways.

So, yes, it was more responsibility, and it did shake things up in a certain way, but it added so much. That was helpful for me when I was going through the process of thinking about having kids, to have that experience to fall back on and go, “Okay, I know what that is like to some degree, and I know this is going to add so much depth and richness in ways that I can’t even predict.”

Gigi: Yes. And with your career, you have no idea exactly how you want to go. Or if you do and you really know how you want to grow, then what systems and processes can you start putting into place now? What are the ways you can get support? Is there something you have to do financially? 

Again, it’s not to overdo it, but how much would it take per month to have the kind of support you need? What could you do right now to set some money aside for the next couple of years so you have that support? 

Think about that instead of thinking about problems.

The sleep thing is so funny because we think with kids, “Oh, of course, there’s going to be sleep deprivation with new babies.” But you know, I’m older, and I lose a lot of sleep now, and I don’t have any kids anymore. 

Again, it’s about not creating all these worries. You can look at your concerns and see how you can set yourself up as much as possible, but don’t overindulge in them. That’s my personal opinion. Everyone’s different, and like you said, if people don’t want children, that’s totally okay. There are many nieces, nephews, and even animals in the world that need your love and support. But if you do want children, then have the courage to step through the fear and go for it.

Think it through ahead of time, but absolutely go for it, because most people would tell you that it’s very enriching and adds so much to your life.

Makena: Yes, and I really see that it’s important to—it all begins with that simple question you asked at the beginning of the episode, which is, if things were working or if you had the right partner, if all the pieces were in place, would you want children? If the answer is no, then you have your answer. If the answer is yes, then you also have your answer.

That “yes,” if it does come to that, is the key piece to begin with, because everything else comes from that choice. It comes from that clarity. 

If you start trying to work out all the things first, like “How would I do it? How would I…” then it’s confusing and muddling, and it’s not really going to get you where you want to go. If you come from the yes, then it creates a certain energy where solutions start to show up. Does that make sense? From that clear decision, you go, “Okay, how?” Or, “How do I want to set this up? What kind of support do I need?”

And it’s like that quote you love, right? 

The “Until one is committed” quote by W.H. Murray and Goethe, the one that goes, “Until one is committed, there is hesitancy, the chance to draw back, always ineffectiveness.” Then it goes on to say, “Whatever you can do, or dream you can, begin it. Boldness has genius, power, and magic in it.” That’s much longer, but it talks about how when we make a choice, when we make a decision… then Providence moves too. 

Things start to happen in the world, in the universe. Synchronicities show up, and things come out of the blue. Gigi, I know this is your favorite quote, but it is the same thing with having babies, just like anything. It’s about coming from the choice of yes, I do want them, and then everything else can organize around that.

Gigi: Yes, absolutely.

And then I wanted to touch on the modeling because, again, that’s a perception, a way of looking at things, and you could find all kinds of evidence for that if you talk to people. 

But the truth is, I told you, look at Heidi Klum. Look at her career. Look at most models—you see out there they have had babies. I hate to tell you, unless they’re young and in their teens or early 20s, all the supermodels have children. 

Again, that’s a mindset. It might even make you have photoshoots with your baby—you never know. If you go with that energy of what you want to do and say, “This is going to work out, and everyone’s going to benefit; it’s going to grow me, it’s going to be exciting,” then you just never know what can come out of that.

Makena: Yes, and I’ll just share my experience from getting clear. We got fully clear probably about a year and a half ago, maybe two years ago—about a year and a half ago—that it was like, “Okay, yes, I’m clear. I want kids. We’re going to move forward on this.” I had some things I wanted to do with my health first, so I spent about a year doing that. Then we just started trying recently.

But in that sense, becoming clear and really declaring that, life did start to organize around that in many ways. Different things showed up, and like you’re saying, my vision started to change as well. 

Where before it was, “How will I model and have children?” now it’s, “I want to model with my children.” That is one of my visions. I see having a family brand and doing different things together. 

I’ve talked to my spirit babies out in the universe and said, “You better be up for this because this is part of the deal,” which is hilarious—we’ll see how they feel about it. But that’s a desire of mine.

So it’s been really fun to see. And now I’m so excited about having children. But I really am grateful that I honored the process of sitting with the question too, because I feel like that was really important for me.

Versus some people just know, and they’re ready, and they know, and that’s great. But for me, I needed to wrestle with it. I needed to give myself that space to go, “Do I or don’t I?” 

The main reason I wanted to record this episode is that I see a lot of women wrestle with it and then sort of default into the decision not to because they never got clear. And that’s a tough one.

Because sometimes they go on to, I think on some level, regret that. And I just would love to see women having the tools to ask these deep questions in such a way that they can come to clarity while they are in the window where that’s a possibility for them, and really see how they want to approach that. 

Gigi: Yes, that’s a question that, when I led workshops for many, many years, I would always ask if a woman was thinking about it. I would say, “Hey, if you didn’t have them, would you regret it?” And that’s a good thing to ask yourself too. 

Many times it was yes, and then I would just say, “Then you need to get out there and have a kid. That’s all there is to it. You need to go for it.” 

Step through your fear, step through the unknowing, and have faith. See the best outcome, and set yourself up in a way, like we talked about, where as much as you can, you set it up so you feel good about it. But then again, relax around it, because that’s the other thing I see women get so stuck on.

They do decide maybe to do it, and then it has to be this way, look this certain way. And you know, nature and life are unpredictable, and you can say what you want, but then you need to relax and be receptive to whatever way and how it comes.

Makena: That’s probably one of the hardest parts about this process. And I’m guessing not every woman who’s trying to get clear is like this—there are many different reasons and types of women. 

But for me, I’ll speak for myself. I’m someone who, in the past, really liked control, predictability, planning, and all of these things. I’ve unwound a lot of that, but those pieces still come in.

So it’s this thing in life that there’s no way to predict, no way to control. There’s none of that in it. And that’s really scary. 

But I also intuitively know that’s what’s going to be the most liberating thing about it. It’s going to shake something up and grow me as a person in a way that I wouldn’t be able to experience in any other way.

Gigi: Yes. I mean, the two things in life we have no control over, right? Birth and death. Absolutely. So we have no idea. No idea.

Makena: And that’s scary, but also, there’s something really beautiful about that. Something really exciting if it’s the choice you make for yourself.

So I want to touch a little bit more on the idea of envisioning what it is you want, because we’re talking about, “Can I really have it all?”

How can someone start to dream up what having it all means for them? In terms of having a family, I mean, that’s maybe even a great question to start with: “If I really had it all, what would that be?”

Gigi: Yes. what was the question I asked you in the car? Remember when you came up with the family brand idea? What was the question? 

We were creating a program, and I asked you something, and then it just spilled out. I can’t remember what it was.

Makena: Yes, that was when we were designing our Feminine Business Program

Gigi: What is your vision that you want? What’s the lifestyle, what’s the vision you want with your family? How do you want it to be? 

For me, I wanted to still continue to travel and work. I wanted to have my kids with me sometimes. So I didn’t want to travel for just a few days at a time. I like traveling for three months at a time, and I could do that in our business because of the nature of our work.

So in that, we designed something where we could do it. 

And the same thing for you—you spilled out and said, “I want a family brand,” and you saw how you wanted your days to go. That’s it. 

How do you want your days to go? Where do you want to have space and time?

It’s so important in your partnership to see how you’re going to stay connected, because that’s probably also a fear—what’s going to happen to our relationship when we have another person in the relationship? 

I think it’s really important to think that through and talk it through with your partner before you have children. What will we commit to? And maybe not in the first three months, because the first three months are all-consuming—maybe even the first six months. 

But still, after the first three months, what will we commit to? Will it still be going out on our date nights? Or will it be bringing a sitter in so we have time together? 

Really planning that out, I think, is super important.

Makena: Absolutely, yes. And a lot of that—I’m remembering now—was when we were designing The Way of Feminine Business program.

That’s one of our self-study programs, and we can link to it in the show notes. 

In that, we have a whole process that you take people through, and we were designing it, so you were testing it out on me. 

It’s really about looking at what’s the lifestyle you want, what’s the rhythm you want, what’s the environment—just all these different pieces, really visioning in a different way, maybe a deeper way than a lot of people have done. That’s when you actually used my vision as the example in the program.

I saw it later and thought, “Oh, look, there’s my vision right there!” So you guys can go in and read all about it.

I think that process, like you’re saying—of “If I really had it all” and then looking at these different areas—starts to make it exciting. Of course, it’s not going to be exactly what we see necessarily—things are going to be different. But it starts to put your mind and attention in the direction of what you want again, instead of focusing on the challenges, the problems, and the reasons why it can’t work.

Gigi: Yes, and allowing yourself to really dream it, like in a perfect scenario, how would it be? 

If it’s a financial issue with childcare, which is expensive, can you set it up with a family member and ask, “In the first three months, can you come over for half a day every two weeks?” 

Start asking people, because then people know, and you’ll have a support system when you have your baby. I think that’s brilliant—friends too. 

Ask your friends if there’s a way they can support you, or if you want your family to be part of it, letting them know that. 

Normally, families want to help, but once the baby is there, they don’t know what to do or how to help.

Makena: The financial piece we touched on, but we haven’t gone super deep into it. I think we’ve mostly covered it from the woman’s side in terms of, if you know you want the baby, then you work it out. You go for that and you see how you want to create that. 

What if there are concerns on the father’s side, the potential father’s side, around having a child financially? 

I’m remembering when we were first early on in our relationship, Sunny and I, he had that around getting married. He was like, “I want to be in a certain financial position before we get married, before we get engaged.” 

He just felt like in order to step into really being in that chapter of life—not that he was necessarily at that stage of providing, but he really wanted to be in a place. He had this certain idea in his mind. 

I’ve seen this happen in relationships or in marriages or partnerships, where maybe the woman is clear she wants a child, and the man is like, “Well, we need to be in a certain place financially.” 

So what about in that scenario? Is there anything you see there for someone in terms of, if you’re clear and your partner is hesitating? I guess that’s a whole other question, but…

Gigi: Yes, that’s something we could go into for a while. One thing is to really share, like if you really want a baby, and you want it by a certain time, how can you both make that happen? You can ask your partner, “This is what I want. How do you see we could do this?” Allow him or her to talk through it, and maybe also talk through concerns—what are the concerns?

Sometimes, if it’s early in the game, you can make a game out of it. If the partner feels like, “Hey, I want to have a certain amount of money,” then you can say, “Okay, let’s make a game of it for the next year, or year and a half—18 months—and save that amount of money. Then, I really want to have the child.”

Because it’s kind of like the question of, “Do I want to have a baby or not?” 

If you want children, you’re never going to have everything perfect. And if you don’t put a timeline on it, it will just be years and years and years. People keep stalling, thinking they’re going to do something, but finally, it’s got to be, “We’re going to go for this. If we both want this, then this is what’s important to me, this is what’s important to you.” You give it a shot and say, “Let’s get you in that position in the next two years. If you’re not in that position, then I still want to go for it.”

Makena: Timelines are one of the most powerful pieces of coaching.

You’ve helped me with this so many times, and I see it with our clients as well, in all different areas of life. But especially in any area where you feel like you’re trying to move something forward or make a decision, and it’s just dragging out—putting a timeline on it is huge.

That timeline could be for yourself, for getting clear. If you’re still grappling with that, it’s like, “Give yourself a certain window of time. I’m going to take the next 90 days, or however long it’s going to be, and really sit with that, go through different scenarios, and allow myself to be in the process.”

Or it could be, like you’re saying, around a financial game or something like that with your partner. It just puts so much clarity into things so it’s not dragging on. 

And again, this is one of those areas in life where there really is a timeline, in the sense that if you’re getting into your mid to late 30s or 40s, you do need to make that decision in order to more easily conceive, carry, and birth a baby.

There are many options for people having babies later with IVF and other methods, but we want to give you, ideally, the most options possible to make it as easy as possible.

Gigi: Yes, and I think it’s the way you approach your partner. I also see sometimes that people are so worried about having a child and all the different aspects and things you have to do, that it becomes almost a negative conversation that starts to happen all the time. 

Think about it—if somebody came to you and they were telling you all the issues or reasons or what they were worried about, constantly talking to you like that, you wouldn’t feel very inclined to go for it, right? Because it would feel like, “My gosh, how is this going to change my life? It’s going to be issues all the time.” 

So I really highly recommend that when you choose, you choose it from a place of “This is going to be a positive, amazing thing in your life.” That’s the framework from which you talk about it with your partner. 

No matter what details have to be handled, these are just part of the things like when we build a house, right? We have to put in the foundation, choose our decorations, and do all these things to make it a fun, engaging, and awesome project. 

Instead of thinking, “I don’t know, I see my friend and she’s having a hard time,” create your world the way you want to create it as much as possible.

And again, we never know. Life is unpredictable. 

But think it through in a way that it’s going to add to your life, be meaningful, and be amazing. It’s going to help you and your partner become even closer with the right systems in place.

Makena: I love that idea. I would say we’ve really been doing this even in terms of our life and just really talking about how language is so powerful, right? 

The words we use are powerful because they’re informing you. The words we speak are literally then going back into our unconscious minds, and they are creating our reality. 

And then also, some people believe, going out into the world, the universe, or even if you’re speaking that as a prayer or whatever that might be. 

So the words we’re using help to create our reality. And so if you are, like you’re saying, talking about it as a problem, bringing it to someone that way or talking about it as stress, then that’s what you’re creating, versus really looking at what’s exciting about it, how it could be amazing, how it could enrich your life. 

I even took on, in the last few months—and I think this came partially from you and also from Sunny, and I’ve had a couple of other people reflect it to me—that I have a lot of physical things I’ve experienced in my lifetime, some that I’m still working through. 

In that, I started to really believe that pregnancy is going to heal a lot of those things and that it’s going to be this really beautiful time, and I’m going to feel great.

I started learning recently—one of our clients, who’s a nurse practitioner, told me that the baby actually gives you stem cells when they’re in the womb. You get stem cells from your baby, and stem cells are some of the most healing things out there. That’s what small children have, which allows them to grow and heal so effectively. 

So I was like, “Wow, that’s even more proof.” I started looking for all the proof that this is going to be the most amazing physical time in my life. Not only that, but it’s going to spark all kinds of healing and regeneration for me. And that’s been such a great frame to go into this with.

That’s an example of choosing a belief. Because I could find evidence for the contrary, of course. I could find evidence for either one.

Gigi: Yes, of course. Like I said, I was just oblivious. I didn’t even think about those things. I thought, “Another child is coming into the place.” Take my baby, travel with it, and just integrate it into my life and business immediately. 

Again, we had a very different kind of life, but we also designed it that way, right?

Makena: Yes, beautiful. I think that’s a great start to this conversation around having a family and really choosing what’s right for you and then creating it the way you want to create it. 

So thank you for sharing your life experience, Gigi, very much in this arena. And I’m so excited.

Gigi: Yes, I can’t wait for my grandbaby. Five now, so yes.

Makena: Five so far. I’ll have the next one, so it’ll be six, and then many more to come. Mariah wants several more.

Gigi: Yes, many more.

Makena: All right, everyone, we’ll see you in the next episode. See you next time.

Gigi: Yes, thank you. Thanks, Makena.

Gigi: Hello everyone. Welcome to a very exciting episode. This one is on finding love, and Makena, I know you’ve experienced this. What was it, eight years ago or something? 

Makena: Almost nine.

Gigi: Oh my gosh, can you believe that? I guess that must mean I’m getting younger and younger, right?

Makena: Absolutely.

Gigi: So you came to me because you were curious about finding love. You said, “I’m really ready. I really want to find my life partner.” 

We went through a process together, which you eventually turned into a great exercise, as you do with most things I share with you. 

That’s something we can really share with everyone so they can take away from what we’re doing today and really apply it, right?

Makena: Absolutely. Yeah, I tell the story all the time because I love love, and I wish that everyone could be with someone they adore, who adores them back. I hope they experience what it’s like to have a relationship that’s like a battery pack for the rest of their life.

I was 27 years old and had just gotten out of a two-and-a-half-year relationship. I had done my healing, and I remember having this moment where I thought, “I think I’m done with dating.” I don’t know if any of you have had that moment, like, “I think I’m good. I’ve had my experiences.” But I would love to find a great, long-term partner, a life partner. 

So, I went to you, and like you said, you guided me through this process. I followed it to a T, and within six months, Sunny walked into my life. It’s been nine years now, in January. I love sharing this process with people. Yay!

Gigi: And you are so right. You are such a great student. I share this process with a lot of people, and you just went with it and did it. And within six months, which is amazing.

Makena: Absolutely. And I’ve shared this with other people. I’ve had people reach out to me and say, “I did your process, and I called in my partner, and we’re getting married.” I’ve had multiple people tell me this. 

So, just to share that link right away with you guys, if you want to try this process, it’s www.wayofthemuse.com/soulmate. 

We won’t go into the whole process today, but we are going to talk about what gets in the way. 

The guide walks you through how to get really clear on what you want, maybe with a different approach than you’ve taken before. It also has a fun part that involves dancing. 

I remember very clearly, Gigi, we would dance around your apartment in Amsterdam as I was calling in my person. 

At our wedding, it was such a fun, full-circle moment. We danced to the song that I used to call him in. 

So all of that is in the guide, but today, we want to talk about what gets in the way of calling in love.

Gigi: First, do you want to share the song?

Makena: It was “Cheerleader” by Omi. That was really big nine or ten years ago.

Gigi: Yeah, we had so much fun dancing around your apartment in Amsterdam with windows everywhere, right?

Makena: Yeah, I imagined it was my partner singing to me, that I was his cheerleader. That was a really fun part of the process. 

First, we want to share a little disclaimer. 

As we’ve mentioned before on the podcast, we are going to speak mostly to women because that’s our primary audience, specifically women in relationships with men, as that’s the majority of our audience.

That being said, what we share can be applied to same-sex relationships as well. You might be a man listening and calling in your woman or man, and it doesn’t matter the dynamics. Even though we’ll speak in terms of binary terms—men and women—you can always substitute the words “masculine” and “feminine” in your mind.

In same-sex partnerships or when calling one in, there’s usually a predominant masculine and feminine energy in the relationship, which creates polarity. 

So, just keep that in mind as we share today. Now, let’s get into it.

What are some of the things that stop or slow down the process of calling in love?

Gigi: Yeah, and let me just share that this was my work for many years. I developed workshops in the ’80s and ’90s and taught them around the world. My topic was relationships, and part of that was assisting women and men to find partners. I did this through coaching one phone. 

Once, in London, a woman reached out to me, and after I coached her, she found her partner. She then started telling all her friends. For about a year, I was coaching all these women in London to find their men. 

And what I’m going to share about the things that get in the way are some of the things that I saw as I was working with these women or men. 

The thing that you had, Makena, that was great is you had me by your side all the time.  So we got to walk through a lot of this.

In the guide that you’re getting, it’s part of it, but really, much deeper work happened.

One of the main things I see is not prioritizing this because it feels like a lot of work. If you have a career or you have children, what happens is we get so busy, and then finding a partner is last – on the back burner somewhere. 

And the other point of that is you really have to set up your life for it.

You’ve got to make the space. 

When you came to me, you were really ready to make the space and to create that time and space for it. It takes some effort – some intentional goal-setting there. 

And I think that’s really what you did, right?

Makena: Yeah, absolutely. Time and space to do things like go through a process like this. 

So, really educate yourself or walk through some of the things we’re talking about today—on your own or with support—because that’s so important. It seems like a lot of time, but if you think about it, if you’re truly calling in a life partner (which many of you listening probably are), it’s been nine years now, and hopefully, it’ll be a lifetime with Sunny.

Was that time and energy I put in during those months worth it? A hundred percent. Right? 

But in the moment, it can feel like, “Oh my gosh, I’m busy. I have my career, I have… whatever else going on. Do I really want to prioritize this?”

Being honest with yourself about that is really important, too. If you’re not going to prioritize it, it doesn’t mean it couldn’t show up, but be honest, if it’s not a priority, you’re willing to put time and energy into it right now—and be okay with that. Or decide that you are.

Gigi: That’s a good point because I see women beating themselves up over this, saying, “I want a partner, but I just can’t find the time, or I can’t find one.” 

Be honest about whether you’re really willing to do this—and if not right now, that’s okay. Don’t pretend like you are when you aren’t.

Makena: Yeah. Another thing I touched on there is getting clear about what kind of relationship you’re calling in. Do you want to just date and have fun? That’s important, too. Or are you really looking for a long-term partnership?

And if you are, what kind of partnership do you want? Marriage? Kids? Some of these things are important to be super clear on because, like you always share, Gigi, about creating in the world, in the universe, it’s like the ATM example. 

Do you want to give that example?

Gigi: Yeah. If you go up to an ATM and say, “I want some money,” how much money will you get? Probably nothing, right? 

But if you go up and type in 100, you get that 100. 

Like you’re saying, get specific and know what you want.

Often, people go for a fantasy instead of the experience they really want. They go for what they think they want instead of pursuing the ultimate experience of what they’re truly seeking. In other words, they go for the picture—like tall, dark, and handsome. We’d all love that, but not all men are tall, dark, and handsome.

You have to spend time asking, “What’s the experience you want with a person? How do you want to feel?” They may look different than you think, and often they do. But it’s about the experience. 

Like you said, Makena, what lifestyle do you want? Do you want marriage? Do you want kids?

For you, I told you early on, you needed a man who adored you, right?

Makena: Absolutely. Yeah, and the picture isn’t always about how they look physically. It’s not that everyone thinks, “Oh, only if they look a certain way.” I think you’re talking about a picture in terms of an idea, right? We have a concept of, “They’re going to be this way,” or “They’re going to have this kind of career,” or maybe it’s about how they’re going to look.

But really, you helped me see the experience in terms of the feeling I wanted. You also guided me to get super clear on what I truly wanted. I knew I wanted marriage. I knew I wanted children eventually, though not right away. I knew I wanted a certain kind of lifestyle and for us to grow that together over time. 

So, there was a lot of clarity there for me in terms of the experience I wanted.

When I met Sunny, there was an immediate recognition of alignment. 

It was like, “Oh, our visions for the future, our values, and all these different aspects really align.” That was a huge indicator for me, but I wouldn’t have known that if I hadn’t had that clarity going in.

Gigi: Yeah, and sometimes it’s important to consider whether you want to find someone who’s at the beginning of their career, someone you can be with as they grow and develop, and where you can really be that supportive and empowering person.

Or do you want someone who already has success in their career? Because those are two very different lifestyles, right?

And another thing is, for women, do you want a guy who’s a real family man, someone who’s also a businessman but enjoys camping, spending time outdoors with the kids, and living that lifestyle—the way you want to raise your family?

Or do you want someone super career-focused who’s really committed to their work, creates a certain lifestyle, pays for everything, and gives you the freedom to explore what you want to do and what’s important to you? 

Like you said, I think it comes down to the values that are important to you.

Makena: Yeah, absolutely. I wanted someone I could grow with. I didn’t necessarily want someone who was already there in terms of career, lifestyle, or whatever. 

I wanted someone who would come in, and we would build a life together. And that’s what we’ve been doing over these last nine years, which, as you said, is a very different choice than if I had said, “I want someone who’s super successful, already has their life set, and I’m just going to walk into that life.” Of course, we would build aspects of it together, but it was a different choice.

And then, of course, there’s growing a family and things like that as well. 

I love thinking about that—the feeling, the lifestyle. 

Like you’re saying, if you’re super outdoorsy or want to travel a lot, do you want someone who’s more entrepreneurial or someone who has more stability in a certain kind of job?

It won’t always be exactly what you think, but I think the important thing, like you’re saying, is the feeling, the experience.

Gigi: And the values are important. Yeah, the values are really important. You know, I say you can find a partner who has some different values from you, but in my experience, it makes for a very difficult relationship if the values are completely different.

So, it’s good to see what kind of values are important to you and really identify your top three. Those are your non-negotiables. When we talk to people and take them through a process to figure that out, we help them determine what’s truly important to them in a partner.

Makena: Yeah, and that is part of the guide that we shared before. You can get it at http://www.wayofthemuse.com/soulmate. 

We’ll go a lot deeper into some of these other aspects. Our program, which we talked about in the last episode, is “The Way of Growing Love,” and that’s in the collective right now, our monthly membership program.

It starts in about a week and is really focused on communication skills. It’s about learning the skills that set you up to have a thriving relationship when you find love. 

We’re also doing a full bonus module, which is very in-depth, on finding love.

So, if you’re going through the Growing Love program and you’re not yet in a relationship, you still need those foundational skills and tools. 

Then, we have specific content that goes much deeper into how to call in love and move through the things that might get in your way. 

If you’re curious about that, it’s at http://www.wayofthemuse.com/collective if you’re listening in October or November 2024. 

If you’re listening later, we’ll have a page up where you can purchase the program as a standalone self-study. You can also email support@wayofthemuse.com if you’re curious.

So, Gigi, what else do you see? What are some other things that slow down the process or get in the way when someone’s really looking for love? 

A lot of the women I talk to, especially those in their mid-30s to 40s, have been looking for a while. They feel like, “Man, I’ve been looking, and I haven’t found that person, so what’s stopping me?” 

What else do you see?

Gigi: Holding on to the past. What happens is, if you’ve had a bad experience and you’re holding onto that, it creates something within you—maybe even repelling people away from you. 

So, it’s really important to do some work and see what you’re holding onto. 

Has this experience created a perception about men, for example, if you’re a woman? Have past relationships where you were hurt shaped how you view men?

That perception might keep you from getting out there and being curious about the men who are out there because there are some really great men out there. This is a big one because if you don’t look into it, you’ll end up recreating the same patterns.

It’s really, really important to see where you’re stuck, where you’re in pain, or where you’re still hurting, and get the support you need. In the work I’ve done with women for years, we go through exercises to help them identify what they’re holding onto so they can move past it. They can reach forgiveness, get a fresh start, and say, “There is a great person out there for me.”

Because, a lot of times, when we’re hurt, somewhere in the back of our minds, we think, “Maybe there really aren’t any great men out there.”

Makena: Yeah, it’s true. I definitely hear that—whether it’s a story like, “It’s hard to find great men,” or “Dating in the city is hard,” or whatever it might be for you. 

I’m curious, though, when it comes to holding onto something from the past. Some people may not have looked at it, while others think they have. They believe they’ve addressed it.

Do you ever see this being a blind spot for women? 

Like, they think, “Oh, I’m not holding onto anything,” but then you, as a coach, can look and say, “Actually, there are some things showing up here.” 

Is that true? Or are people typically pretty self-aware when you bring this up, where they can say, “Oh, yeah, I see what I’m holding onto”?

Gigi: No, it’s definitely a blind spot. Yeah, it’s a blind spot, and it’s hard to see it in yourself. That’s why it often requires a coach, therapist, or someone to support you in walking through it. 

You’re absolutely right—maybe not most, but a lot of women think, “Oh, I’m fine. I got through that. I’m done with it.”

But still, there’s something in them where their heart is closed, and they’re not completely willing to get vulnerable and go for another partnership. Maybe it’s because they’re afraid of getting hurt again, too.

Makena: And it’s interesting because, like you said, sometimes people end up calling in something similar because they haven’t fully moved through things. That’s really a sign—if you’re calling in a similar dynamic when you’re dating or in relationships, and it keeps showing up again and again, even when you’re trying to make different choices, there’s often something unintegrated that needs to be moved through and released in order to call in something different.

I was just speaking to a friend the other day who’s dating right now, and this was actually a man. I think it’s important to be aware that sometimes we overcorrect. 

Something we talked about was an “aha” moment for him—he’s dating someone who’s very different from his former partner. I asked him, “Is this a pendulum swing the other way?”

And he had this realization, like, “Oh my gosh, you’re right!” She was so different—on the opposite end of the spectrum—but maybe, in this case, a little too different. 

So, was it really what he wanted, or was it just a reaction? 

That’s something to be aware of, too, because sometimes we go, “No way, I don’t want that thing,” and we swing too far in the other direction instead of landing on what’s truly aligned for us.

So, it’s important to recognize when something isn’t fully integrated and be aware of that as well.

Gigi: Absolutely.

Makena: What else?

Gigi: So, the other one is not educating yourself. How do you create harmony with the opposite sex? How do you build a relationship that continues to expand over time instead of contract?

There’s almost this unconscious belief that relationships are just supposed to work out and that we don’t really need to understand them or that we should just know how to do them. This is one of the biggest myths in life, I think.

If you look at the work, time, attention, awareness, and consciousness you’ve put into your connection with Sunny —that’s the reason why you have such a great, harmonious relationship.

That’s why you have a great, harmonious relationship. 

You have a strong foundation—you love each other, and you came together with similar values. 

So, you have that foundation, but without the tools you have, it would be a whole different ballgame, right? You know this.

Makena: Hugely. I mean, you’re right. The amount of time, energy, and attentiveness it takes is a lot. It’s an ongoing, continuous effort and an area of intentionality. I think sometimes women who aren’t in relationships might think, “Do I really want that? It sounds like a lot of work. That sounds hard.”

But I will say that having these tools from the beginning made it so much easier. Of course, there are challenges, and yes, it takes time and effort, but there’s also a lot of ease to it. We set a solid foundation from the start, and it’s been about growing on that foundation, regularly checking in, and continuing to build.

Without a doubt, this relationship feeds me far more than the effort I put in. What I receive from it is 10x the effort I invest. So yes, it is time and effort, and you might be thinking, “I don’t know how that’s even going to work,” but if you’re willing to put in the time and if it’s the right person with the right alignment, I can’t even describe what it gives you.

A lot of people don’t realize that’s possible because they’ve never experienced a relationship like that. 

That’s why I’m so passionate about this topic—I want more people to understand, even if it’s just by hearing someone like me share or by looking at other great partnerships, what that kind of quality connection can be and what it can give you.

Gigi: Yeah, I’m glad you made that distinction because a lot of people have no idea. You’re absolutely right about that. 

From all my years of experience, what I’ve found is that when people are willing to get curious about what it takes to grow something profound—something that expands over time—and they’re willing to put in the work, they end up with these quality connections.

Even if it’s a temporary relationship and not “the one,” you practice, learn about yourself, and really educate yourself on relationships. The experience is often far above anything they’ve ever had. It sets them up to practice and, eventually, find their partner down the line.

This is why educating yourself is so important. 

I’ve spent my career studying and sharing with men and women how we’re so different—how the masculine and feminine are different—and how we can work together. Our differences complement each other, even though most people would say they don’t, that they “rub each other the wrong way.” But once you start to learn, your perception shifts and you see how we’re designed to work together.

Another key thing is knowing what you want and how to communicate that. So often, as you’ve seen with Makena and the women we work with, we communicate in a way that tells people what we don’t want rather than what we do want. And then, when we get what we don’t want, we’re upset about it, but that’s exactly what we’ve been asking for the whole time, right?

Makena: Yeah, we don’t think we’re asking for that, but through complaining, blaming, and criticizing, we’re reinforcing what we don’t want instead of knowing how to ask for what we want in a way that feels like a win-win. In a way that your partner can really hear, understand, and respond to. When you’re in a relationship and there’s love, of course, you want your partner to get what they want. You both do, right?

But if it feels like you’re always on opposite sides, there’s an entire dynamic at play. These are skills you need to learn before you enter a relationship.

Another misconception that’s important to address is that people think they just need to focus on finding the relationship, and then they can learn all the things about how to be in it.

If you’re single, your attention is probably focused on, “How do I find a partner?” 

But what if you put time and energy not only into finding that person but also, like you said, Gigi, into really understanding the differences between men and women, or the masculine and feminine? What if you focused on knowing what you want and how to communicate it? 

I think you’re going to share a few other things here as well, but it’s like, if you put that time in now, you’re energetically telling the universe—or God—that you’re getting ready.

When that person comes into your life, you’ll already be ready to be in a relationship with them. You’ll have the skills and tools. 

What a beautiful way to start, rather than just focusing on finding the person, and, once they show up, all your stuff—your triggers and patterns—comes up.

Gigi: Yeah, that’s where getting educated on communication skills is so important. When there’s a conflict, most people don’t know how to handle it. But when you know how to approach it, you can set things up to create harmony. 

I think we talked about this in past podcasts—how misunderstandings, if not handled properly, are often what starts to create separation between people. They don’t know how to navigate it and just dig themselves further into it.

Another big one is understanding or knowing your own impact—how you come across to others. 

Are you putting out people’s lights out with your communication style? Like you said, are you complaining or blaming? Over time, when you’re with a partner, they may just stop listening if that’s the pattern. So, really starting to see that and learning about yourself in a deep way—not to criticize yourself, but to wake up and go, “Oh my gosh, I had no idea I was doing that.”

When I reflect this back to people, they’re often shocked because they didn’t realize it. 

But if you take the time to learn about yourself and educate yourself, you’re so far ahead of the game. Then, when you do find the right partner, you know how to truly build something—a relationship that gets better and better over the years.

I also want to bring up another point—this applies not just to people in their 30s but also to couples in their 50s and 60s. Often, I see couples who have been together for a long time and have this attitude of, “Well, this is just the way we are. We’re fine.” But they’re not willing to step back and say, “Wait a minute, I want to be really close to my partner again. I want this relationship to grow and get better over time.” 

They can get a little lazy, but it’s so important to put in the time and effort because, as you mentioned earlier, the experience, reward, and quality of life can change completely.

I’ve witnessed this so many times. 

I led the Secrets of Power Couples retreat last February, and you were there with me. We saw couples find ways to connect and communicate in ways they had never been able to before in their entire relationship.

The depth and quality of their connection were so profound—they were blown away. Many of them said they didn’t even know that kind of connection was possible.

Makena: Yeah, and this was your retreat, right? Secrets of Power Couples, the week-long retreat you lead about once a year. Absolutely, the transformation was amazing. People are still telling us about the impact and how much it shifted things for them. 

It’s incredible when you can go with your partner and have that experience.

For those listening who aren’t in a partnership yet, it all starts with educating yourself. Whether you’re single or in a relationship, it really begins with learning these skills and tools, seeing your impact, and realizing how much can get cleared up right there.

People wouldn’t believe it. We see it with the women coming out of our retreat—whether it’s in their romantic relationships, their relationships with their kids, or at work—they often think, “Oh, it’s definitely the other person. It’s just the way it is.” 

Then, with just a few tools and skills, and by seeing their impact on our mastermind program, huge changes happen in such a short period of time. They’re like, “Oh my gosh, people are acting completely different.”

Gigi: Who changed? Right? I changed. They changed.

Makena: Overnight, Suddenly, they’re a different person, and that’s really the power of this work.

That’s why we combined Growing Love and Finding Love into one program instead of doing separate programs. 

As you go through the process of educating yourself, learning these skills, and seeing your impact, something starts to shift—even energetically. In yourself, in your views, in how open you are. Something begins to open up, which paves the way for you to call in that love.

Then, we can look at the tools, tactics, and everything else, but this underlying shift is key. A lot of people go straight into dating or hire a dating coach, and sometimes that works. But often, there are deeper pieces underneath that need addressing. If those aren’t resolved, they end up struggling because something’s not moving.

So that’s really, really important, and it is to walk it all the way through.

Gigi: And you know, if you’re looking for a partner and you’ve been hesitant or don’t find the time, we had a woman we worked with for many years. She was ready to find another partner, but every time she started moving in that direction, it just didn’t stick. She couldn’t follow through. 

Finally, we found a game or container—a way of approaching it that was fun for her to go out and find a partner. She went after it and found her partner in five days. 

Remember Makena? 

Makena: Literally five days! She was like, “Okay, I found him.” We were like, “What?!” It happened so fast.

Gigi: So, see what works for you. Make it fun! I’m a game person, so if you’re a woman looking for a man, start by just talking to 10 men a week—in the grocery store, at the coffee shop—just talk. You’re not looking for a date but simply starting to connect with men again. 

If you’ve been isolating yourself, those simple little actions can create a big change. Just have fun with it!

Makena: Absolutely. And just to share one more time, if you want the free guide on how to call in your soulmate, go to http://www.wayofthemuse.com/soulmate. 

The Growing Love program, The Way of Growing Love, which also includes bonus modules on finding love, is running live in the collective. You can find that at http://www.wayofthemuse.com/collective.

If you’re not listening to this in October or November 2024, you can email us at support@wayofthemuse.com, and we’ll let you know how to get it as a self-study program once the live version is finished.

Thank you all for listening. 

Take one thing you learned today, put it into action, and we’ll see you in the next episode.

Gigi: Thank you. Thanks, Makena.