Makena: Hello, everyone. Welcome back. We’re here with another very special on-air coaching episode. Thank you so much for being here. 

Gigi: Thank you. We’re excited to work with you today. 

Jordanne: I’m excited to be here.

Makena: Beautiful. We’re just going to dive right in – let’s go for it.

Gigi: I read some of your questionnaires. Thank you so much for sharing.

I’m just curious: what’s working in your life right now? 

Jordanne: That’s a good question. 

I’m fulfilling my dream of becoming a mother and a wife. I’m living in a safe place to raise my son. 

That’s working. I might need a few more questions.

Gigi: It sounds like a lot of that is centered around your baby. You’re feeling strong and secure in the sense of having a baby. 

Well, that’s very important because, for a mama, it is so important to have that feeling that the child is secure and that you’re in a safe place.

Then, as far as you – I’d seen a lot of things that you had shared in terms of challenges and things you’re dealing with, but I’m going to set those aside for a moment. 

I’m going to ask you if you didn’t have those challenges, what’s your bigger dream?

Jordanne: My bigger dream is to… well, my biggest dream. 

Gigi: Can you keep your eyes open so we can see them?

Jordanne: Oh yeah, for sure. Sometimes, it’s just easier for me to visualize if I close them. 

My biggest dream would be living somewhere in nature in a big, beautiful home with my family, living around other like-minded people – to create a village.

Creating wealth and a legacy in my life through something that I offer of my own services – not working for somebody else.

I love leading people. I love exploring the world and the mysteries of life. 

I’m just not sure what product that would be, but it would be my dream to have an offering of that nature.

Being able to enjoy all the riches of life, harvesting food from the earth, being connected with nature and raising my son and possibly future children in that setting. 

Having freedom. 

Gigi: So that’s freedom for you. 

Jordanne: Yes

Gigi: Because it’s really important to see what freedom is for you.

What’d you see there, Makena? Where’d you see the most light? 

Makena: I saw the most light with exploration. It sounded like that wasn’t just exploring as in travel or something, but also exploration in terms of…

What else were you saying there?

Jordanne: Oh yeah, exploration of the mind and the heart – navigating the invisible of life.

Gigi: Definitely some light there, and definitely your face changed a little bit, and it relaxed. 

I can definitely see that for you. 

So then, in doing that, what could be the first step? Because that creation doesn’t sound so far off.

If you were to approach it, say, “Okay, this is what I want. I know this.”

What’s the baby step, the first step to go after this? What would you do?

Jordanne: This is where I get stuck, for sure. 

I would say to immerse myself more in that realm, per se – like learning and absorbing more information. I do that already, actually.

But I don’t do it in the sense of how could I take this in and then create something around it to offer out. I’m not using that type of mechanism when I’m thinking about it. 

I have done what I’ve always done, which is absorb it because I’m so curious. 

I think it would probably just begin to change the way I’m thinking about it. 

Gigi: How would you think about it?

Jordanne: How can I take all this and create something of value that I can then offer to people – that would enrich their life, and bring them more happiness? 

I do believe a big part of what my work may be is helping to bring understanding.

Because I feel like that’s the biggest hurdle: Understanding.

Gigi: Understanding in what way? What do you mean by that?

Jordanne: It’s kind of a lot of the invisible. So it’s hard to describe.

It’s really just like understanding the greater spiritual nature of our being. How we can navigate that and create an even more beautiful life through it. 

Gigi: What do you see there, Makena?

Makena: I think there’s some curiosity.

As far as navigating, you said exploring all this, and then you talked about really synthesizing. 

Coming from a place of not just learning for you and your own curiosity but putting this other lens on things and going, “If I were stepping into something where I was going to start to share at some point, how would I be learning and absorbing in a different way here?”

Gigi: I think that’s really beautiful. I also see the environment piece. 

I’ve seen this with you because I’ve worked with you a little bit. I think the environment piece is huge for you. 

Is there a baby step to start to move into a place that would make you feel more grounded and alive?

Jordanne: I think I would just need to physically move my body into a more outdoor, like natural space. 

I do have a really beautiful backyard, and I’m actually looking at it right now. 

If I just go, maybe spend time journaling, listening, and reading these things in terms of content that I’m very curious about, I feel like that would open up a portal for me to be able to synthesize that information differently. 

Gigi: Would you do that? 

Jordanne: Would I? Yeah, absolutely. I can totally do that. 

Makena: I have a question. 

If you knew that this was a big part of what you came here to do… 

If you knew that in addition to being a mother, a wife, and these other parts of your life that you’re really fulfilling right now… you had a big mission and purpose here to share something with people and the world; how would you approach your life differently?

Jordanne: Hmm, another great question.

The first thing that comes to my mind is approaching it as if I don’t have all the time in the world. 

Because currently, I am allowing the priorities of others to go before mine. Many times, I need to because I have a son and I’m a wife, but that being said, I would need to prioritize and carve out space to create this, work on this, and put energy into it.

I would have to start approaching every day like that. 

Makena: Do you see how you would start to do that?

Jordanne: Yeah, I can. Something that I have every day is my son’s nap time. 

That is the time when I could prioritize, putting energy and time towards this instead of putting it towards all the other things that I usually do for the household or for the family. 

Gigi: Imagine you’ve done that. Let’s just say you’ve done that for the last two weeks. 

Imagine how you’re going to feel about all the other things. Can you see that? 

Jordanne: When you say all the other things…

Gigi: The household and everything. 

Jordanne: I think I would feel more excited to do them because I would have more fuel. I would have more water in my cup. 

And something I’m working on is trying to get to the mindset of “I get to do this” instead of “I have to”.

I think that would really help me be able to implement that mindset more.

It’s like, “Okay, now I get to go help my family, get to go take care of chores, I get to do laundry, I get to do bills.” 

I think it would really help. It would light me up – lighten me up as well because I would feel like I’m fulfilling something for myself and moving more towards my life purpose, which is the thing I’m having the biggest challenge with right now.

Gigi: Well, I see that. Honestly, you’re very clear about what you want. It’s just a matter of finally isolating it out and going…

That’s a beautiful question that Makena asked because you can step right into it.

How long does the baby sleep? 

Jordanne: Two hours

Gigi: You have two hours a day to step into that part of yourself.

Two hours a day, five days a week, and a month… Makena, can you help me with that one?

Makena: 40 hours. It’s a full work week every month. 

Jordanne: Mind you, I have to rest; however, in theory, yes. 

Gigi: Even if it was one hour, that’s 20 hours a month. That’s a lot. 

That is a commitment to you; you’re at the hub and the center of everything. It’s so, so, so important. 

Your energy is the barometer for your son, for every piece of your life. Cause you’re the mama in the space there.

You really, really have to come first.

If this is the way you can come first right now, this is the most important thing in your whole life.

Jordanne: Yeah. I feel that.

Makena: Because that question I asked wasn’t rhetorical. You do have that mission – that’s the thing. And you know that deep down. 

You’re acting in some ways, not purposefully, but you’re acting like that’s not true or that you’re questioning. 

But the truth is, when we get down to it, like Gigi said, you know exactly, and it’s just to really lean into that and go, “Okay, I take this on. This is something I’m here to do. It’s another part of what I’m here to do.” 

Then you start living in accordance with that. 

Jordanne: Is that in some way kind of what we were talking about last week? 

Make the decision and commitment, and then the universe converges around you.

Gigi: Yeah, absolutely. It is that sense of finally committing to it. 

Since you know this is an energy line for you, you’re absolutely clear about that. Then, by committing and going for it, you will have opportunities and new ways of seeing. 

Even the space of talking about a certain place to live and where you want to live will open you up to starting to go, “okay, how can I create that?”

You’re going to be in a different kind of mindset there. 

And not only mindset again, it’s vitality. 

Remember we talked about that? Because you’re doing something that you’re curious about and that you love, energy and vitality will come into you. And through that, your perspective starts to shift. Inspiration dawn.

You may be out at lunch one day and meet someone, and they say, “Oh, we live together on the day…” 

And you go, “Oh, wow, really? That’s something I’m curious about. I’d love to see what you guys are doing.”

Jordanne: I’m glad you said that because having those little synchronicities in life is something that used to occur for me on a regular basis – essentially for as long as I can remember since I was a child. 

I think when COVID hit, that really cinched it. It never really came back so much after that. 

It’s scary for me because I’m so used to having those types of synchronicities where the universe is reflecting back to me that I’m on the right path.

I think that’s just a little piece of… or maybe a bigger piece of why I haven’t committed and started taking the steps.

I guess I’ve been waiting for something external: you – right here – for me to put a stake down.

This would probably be the first time in my life that I’ve really had to take a bigger step. 

Gigi: You have to understand, too; when I read your questionnaire, you’ve gone through a lot of changes and a lot of life differences, changes, and personal loss.

So life is very different. 

Also, you’re in a different stage in life before you weren’t responsible for somebody else. 

What happens often is that, especially in the first stages, especially with the first baby, as women kind of get this feeling, they lose themselves. 

You’ve forgotten. You can’t quite feel into who you are anymore.

That’s why it’s so important to find those places where you know what you want or those places that bring you alive and immerse yourself in those. 

As we’ve said in several of our podcasts, that begins to create you to be more in alignment with where you’re supposed to be going.

That opens up the possibilities for synchronicities. 

But you don’t want to look for the synchronicities. You want to immerse yourself in the vitality.

Jordanne: That’s the key right there. 

Gigi: Because you know that “oh, I need this. I want this.” – it’s not going to come. 

Now you’re learning that you do have to step in. You have to own your life. 

That’s a new part, but that’s also a very fun part. 

I just got off a session talking to someone about how that is stepping into womanhood: You get to guide your life the way you want it. Along with God and the universe, you get to really, really, really choose now.

Jordanne: That’s the truth. You nailed it. Before, when I didn’t have a responsibility outside of myself, like another human, I naturally just flowed in those places. That created places full of vitality for me where I would keep going down the path. Because I had nothing else that I was responsible for.

But now that I have my son and I’m a new wife, it takes so much more to decide to step out and do it intentionally. 

To go and sit in those places. To create those mini vacations and to schedule spa appointments.

It’s not part of my natural flow yet again – it’s not for me personally. 

I’m struggling with it. It’s not coming naturally to me. 

Gigi: You’re not the only one. Then you get to look and go, “okay, I’ll fit this in. I start with this baby step.”

That baby step, that rhythm will also make you be curious about starting the next thing. 

Jordanne: That’s another thing; I’m a big-picture person. I’m trying to find the value in the baby steps… in the first step.

It’s ironic because I have a toddler who I’m literally watching take baby steps. He’s a great teacher, but I struggle to get excited about the first step because my vision and my nature are to look at the big picture. 

Another huge lesson for me from this is finding the value and necessity of the first step and getting excited about it. 

Gigi: I don’t think you have to find all that value and everything. I think you just have to do it.

Makena: One way of looking at the big picture is to go to the end of your life. Look back at this time and this moment and go, “Wow, I’m so glad I took that first step.” 

That’s a very simple, big-picture way of looking back at the small steps. 

Jordanne: Yeah. That’s great. 

Makena: “I’m so glad I didn’t wait and put it off and think I had all the time in the world.”

Maybe you do have all the time in the world, you have many years ahead of you, but still, “I’m so glad I started then because look at what that led to.” 

Gigi: This is a, a beautiful time too. I don’t know if you journal, but also to write down… 

Because there are a lot of women going through this, too. First-time moms, right?

Maybe they’re at home, and they were career women… It’s a little shocking.

You can really share through your work as you move forward. 

Share with other moms: 

This is how I navigated this. This was what was so important. These are the feelings I was having. You are not alone.

I know a lot with first-time moms when they make the shift. A lot of times it feels like you’re really, really alone in the situation.

Nobody else is going through it. 

Jordanne: I’m sure every generation feels this way; I know I’m not special. But it feels like my mother’s generation, which would be your generation, did it so flawlessly – it seemed so, at least. Y’all did it with a lot of grace.

I look back, and I’m doing a comparison thing, and it’s not healthy. 

Makena: Did what flawlessly?

Jordanne: Being a mother. Transitioning into motherhood – doing all the things with seeming ease. Always showing up, always being there. Never missing a beat.

It feels like in this generation, I do know a few other mothers who are struggling with this. It just feels more challenging overall for my generation.

Maybe that is something that I can help with. 

Gigi: If that’s something that you feel strongly about.

I don’t know if that distinction is more important than not comparing and asking, “How do we navigate with what we’re dealing with right now?”

Because almost every comparison makes you a little bit of a victim. 

But to say: “Women have to navigate through this, and I’m finding it very challenging because of these different aspects. How do we do this and create the way we want to and build our lives, relationships, and everything?”

Jordanne: You’re right. Thank you. 

Gigi: I think we should look at how you will approach it. 

If it’s hard for you to make that first step, How will you approach these nap-time creations?

Jordanne: That’s a great idea. 

First, I just need to decide and commit to which part of the nap I will take. That way, I will know and have a little schedule in place, a plan. 

I should probably do it right after he goes down, when my energy is still moving the most.

Then, I will center myself out there, dive into it, and spend the second part of the nap resting or taking care of whatever else I need to take care of.

So creating a plan and that’s my plan. 

Then, create a little sanctuary, mini sanctuary pop-up space. 

Gigi: I think that’s a great idea. That’s fun. So it’s a place you go and sit. Tell us about that.

Jordanne: I would get one of my favorite throw blankets and put it out in the corner of our yard, which has many beautiful trees, flowers, and shade.

Then, I go ahead and bring out whatever device I am listening to the content on, and definitely a journal to write things down rather than type into a computer. I think that’s important for me – it keeps me more connected to the environment around me. 

And maybe some water and a few snacks. Bless the space when I sit there – maybe a few crystals and, oh, I’ll even light some sage. I haven’t done that in a long time. 

Makena: I was just talking this morning in our mastermind call about the hero’s journey and really seeing your life through the lens of the hero’s journey.

I’m a big fiction and fantasy reader. My favorite part of the hero’s journey, or in every story that follows this arc, is always the time when the student meets the guide and goes through the training period. 

Basically, they were learning to activate their superpowers – their magic powers.

It might be fun for you to see this as it’s the beginning of that time for you.

It’s like they’ve been there all along, dormant. But you’re starting to activate them and working with different guides, us and others, to start to learn and absorb and practice and create so that you can step into your bigger adventure here.

Jordanne: I love that. It’s nice. 

Gigi: That was great. That’s beautiful. 

What are you gonna do when it rains? 

Jordanne: Great question!

Makena: Very practical. 

Gigi: I just didn’t want to hear, oh, it rained all last week. 

Jordanne: Oh, how funny! That’s a great question. If it rains, I’ll do it in my office – by the window. 

Gigi: Set that up as an optional space with some intention, crystals, if you need nice music, or whatever that is really. Look and see. 

That’s fun for you in the next couple of days – to get those environments, really get your things together, all the things you’re collecting, and have your little space ready to go.

Intentionally set it up so that it’s there for the next day. 

I’m a game person. I always like to say, do it for 30 days, and then look and go, “Okay, let me see what’s worked and hasn’t worked here. What do I want to tweak? How, what do I want to do next?”

Jordanne: That’ll be another challenge for me to overcome – consistency. 

Specifically, since becoming a mother, continuing to choose to make time, honor my commitment, and not allow other things to start to creep in, like taking over that priority space that I have set for myself – will be a challenge as I do that.

But I love that challenge, and I’m committed to it. I like the 30 day idea. 

Gigi: That will be a challenge. Let me think about that. 

What will this mean for you when you do this? 

Like what Makena said when you’re older and look back to this time…

The question is, if you don’t do it, what will it be in 30 days? How will your life be in 30 days? 

Jordanne: The same it is right now. Nothing will change.

Makena: If that continues for two years, which I know seems like a long period of time, it’s not inconceivable.

Another month goes by… then how will you feel or what will your experience be two years from now? 

Jordanne: Probably I’ll have anxiety and depression around it.

The anxiety of knowing that I’m long overdue for starting, and the depression of the missed time of what could have been created. 

Gigi: Now, the funny thing about this is you doing this actually is the most kind and beautiful thing you can do for your baby in the whole world.

Happy mom – energetically, that goes into your baby every single day. 

Unhappy mom – it’s the same thing.

Instead of approaching it as a challenge, it could be approaching it as finally, making you a priority choosing, choosing Jordan every day.

Jordanne: That’s a good distinction right there. 

Gigi: I’m going to choose me today. 

Makena: The other thing is if you don’t one day… 

Don’t make it mean that you stop, that you failed, and all of that; just pick up and do it the next day.

That continuous baby step and forward movement over time creates – one day, you’re walking, and then you see that with your baby. 

One day, he walked and then kept trying to talk. Then, one day, he starts making words. 

Jordanne: Yeah, you’re right. I literally have the best teacher in the world for this right now.

I didn’t notice that until this call. Now I think I can actually put that lens on, and I think that’ll be really good for me. 

Gigi: If you look and go, “Okay, five days a week feels too much. I’d do it four days a week. Then that fifth day is for other things to do, or if I want to rest more than I have that time.”

As much as possible, if you can really, really go for it and keep your word with yourself. 

Get yourself a calendar, mark them off as you go, and applaud yourself. 

After 30 days, you can really reflect and say, “Okay, what’s working and what’s not working here? How would I like to shift this? What do I see? What’s the next step in this? Now that I’ve collected all these ideas, is it time to start creating?”

Makena: That’s where you also have support. You’re in The Collective, and you have bi-weekly calls, a container, and a community there.

You check in with us and have a way to continue moving that forward – have a sounding board. 

Jordanne: Yeah, that’s true. I do have all of the pieces currently in my life to support it, and it’s just a matter of me taking advantage of those.

I even have the calendar. It’s been so ironic, actually. It was right at the beginning of the year, and I saw one of those at Staples, the big wall calendar ones.

I was like, “I need that.”

And my husband’s like, “Okay. Are you really going to write on it?”

And I was like, “Yes.” I have not; it’s been sitting under my desk. But I feel like that’s what I bought it for.

After this call, I’ll literally just go pick it up and finally put it on the wall. 

Oh, that’s awesome. 

Gigi: So here we’re not going to go, especially in these calls, to go in little pieces. Because if we go in too deep then it would be a much longer call. 

So, this first piece is just to get you started. It’s to get you more clarity just by being in the energy and vitality of doing something, creating a little bit of a schedule, and starting to keep your word to yourself, which is powerful.

And really choosing you every day. 

Then, with this pattern and what we’re sharing with you, you can start to use this in different ways than in your life. 

So you can take the same thing in the second month and go. How do I approach this now? 

Makena: Knowing from this context, “I do have a mission here and something I’m here to do. What is my next step?” 

I do want to share because coming into the call… I won’t go deeply into anything you shared in your questionnaire, but you had a lot of questions about what’s blocking me, what’s holding me back… We didn’t go into that deeply in this call. 

Here’s why: something that we are sharing about in an episode, which may have aired at this point, or maybe not, is that we don’t want to solve the problems or look at the blocks. We go to, what do you want? 

Then that creates a different context for everything in your life to organize around. 

When you do this, like Gigi’s saying, for 30 days, then your perspective changes. You start to see things differently. 

That is the power of knowing what you want, going for it, and then putting energy into what makes you alive.

Gigi: Yeah. Because when I read your questionnaire, I said, “I don’t do that.”

Makena: We’re talking about it beforehand. She’s like, “I’m not going to go into the blocks.”

Jordanne: I get it, though. I have a natural desire to understand.

That’s kind of my mission to really understand the things that are difficult to understand.

I just need to remove that filter when it comes to why I am not moving forward with X, Y, or Z in my life. 

It’s true, though. I do seek to understand and then take action, but it’s not of service, and it’s not useful when it comes to something like this. 

Gigi: I think most people do that. I find them trying to figure out the why – why are they doing this one day, and then they figure it out but still don’t do anything.

Makena: Move first, and the universe follows. Move first, and magic happens. 

Jordanne: I believe that’s true. Yeah. I’m going to experience it firsthand. 

Gigi: Yeah. So you look very different. You look brighter – more relaxed and softer. Much more in the element you can see of you.

Jordanne:   I feel it.

Gigi: Good. Well, do you have any other questions?

Jordanne: No, I don’t think so. I think I’m clear. I think it’s good that I don’t have a ton that I need to think about or integrate.

I’m very clear. I have a plan. That’s the first step. 

I feel like I don’t even want to ask any more questions because I’m clear on this.

I’m going to keep it simple from what we talked about: just take that step and move. 

Gigi: And because you are in The Collective, as you go through it, you can also begin to see through the programs – what is the next piece for you? 

I think that will stimulate ideas for you. The different programs and things will start stirring, “Oh, okay. This is what I want to do next. It’s the next piece.”

Makena: For those of you listening who don’t know what The Collective is, that’s our monthly membership program.

It has courses that we go through together. We have bi-weekly calls in the community.

You can check that out. We’ll put it in the show notes, but it’s www.wayofthemuse.com/collective.

And Jordanne is one of our amazing founding members.

Jordanne: I absolutely love this course and this program, The Collective. It’s very magical and I feel very honored to be a part of it.

Gigi: Well, thank you so much for letting us work with you today. I really appreciate you getting on here, being vulnerable, and showing up. 

So thank you, thank you!

…and so receptive. 

Jordanne: Yeah, of course. Thank you for inviting me.

Makena: This will help so many moms I know… And people probably who aren’t mothers as well who are sitting in that place.

Jordanne: Or even women looking to become mothers. 

Makena: All right, everyone. See you in the next episode. 

Makena: Hello, everyone. 

Gigi: Hello. Welcome back. 

Makena: Welcome to another episode. We have a really fun topic today that comes up a lot in our work with people. I feel like it’s really this “aha” moment for people. When you say it, it’s like the lights turn on, and they go, “Oh my gosh, I never looked at it that way.”

Gigi: Yeah.

Makena: We have this line—or you have this line—that you’ve said for a long time, which is, “Don’t solve your problem; take on a new challenge,” and that new challenge is going for what you want.

I’m curious, first of all, how did you come up with this before we really describe what it means? How did you start to see that fixating on problems instead of going for what they want?

Gigi: Early on, when I started coaching people and leading trainings, I would do an interview process. In that process, what I noticed was a pattern with people. When we have challenges or problems, that’s where all of our attention goes. When we have that pain, we’re trying to solve the problem all the time. 

Through the interview process, I started to see that if I tried to get in there and help people solve the problem, we just went deeper and deeper into the problem. There was no way of solving it because their thinking was fixated on the problem. 

Out of that, I naturally started shifting their attention to something else, which is what do they want. When we would shift to that, all of a sudden, as you said, they would be out of their heads, and then they’d be into, “Oh yeah, what do I want?” 

Taking them in that direction, when they would look at the problem again, it was from a completely different perspective and a bigger view. Then the problem didn’t seem so big, and they actually started to focus on what they wanted. 

I would say, “Let’s get a bigger problem or a new problem,” and really that is, “What do you want?” There’s inspiration and energy there. The problem has energy, and that brings us to it, or we can say, “What do I want?” Out of doing that, it’s also energy, but it’s the energy of inspiration, tapping into our desire and what we want.

Makena: That was hugely my experience. We had that turning point moment when you supported me in Costa Rica, and we’ve told that story in previous episodes. 

I was so fixated on the problems of “What am I going to do in my career?” “How do I solve these anxiety and panic attacks?” I could not see how to get out of the situation I was in or make a change.

You always say the line, which I love, “It’s like you’re inside the box, and the instructions are written on the outside,” and that really sums it up.

Gigi: I have watched you for about two years. We would get together on vacations and things like that, and you were so stressed and had to be at the computer for so many hours a day. You had no choice because you had deadlines. I watched you and watched you, and as we told you before, I couldn’t say anything because you were in your thing, and you wouldn’t have listened to me anyway. 

I think a couple of times we tried to talk about it, but again, you were so fixated and set on this being the way it was. I let it be until I finally saw the opportunity when we did go to that retreat in Costa Rica. I thought it through, and I saw I had an opportunity of three or four days to shift and take you into a different experience and have you look at what you really wanted because, from there, I knew we could start to see how to unwind this issue that felt like there was just no possibility.

Makena: It really does feel that way when you’re in that experience. Whoever is listening right now, it’s not to say that your problems aren’t real. They were very real. 

I was having anxiety, I had the deadlines, I had the business model that was set up in a certain way, and I was making great money. There was a lot working, but there was a lot not working for me too. 

Whatever you’re dealing with, it’s not to say that those problems aren’t real. It’s just that, in a way, it’s kind of like that line, “What you’ve done has gotten you to where you are.” 

You’re getting the results you’re getting because of the way you’ve done things up to this point. Do you remember the line?

Gigi: I know what you’re talking about, but I don’t remember the line. Both of us still go through that. It’s not like we’ve solved that. Now we know when we go down that rabbit hole, and we know how to approach it differently.

Makena: We see this when we coach people a lot. There’s this one way of looking at things and this one challenge or maybe multiple challenges that they’re dealing with. 

How do you take people outside of that and start to help them see, like you’re saying, a new challenge, a better challenge?

Gigi: You ask questions that have nothing to do with the problem, usually curious questions. 

For example, if you knew you couldn’t fail, what would you be doing right now? 

If you’re sitting there talking to me about how much work you have, and there’s no way you can get out of it, then for a moment, you go, “I’ve never thought about that.” 

So it creates curiosity because people go to something completely different. It takes them out of their heads and into their curiosity. By doing that and also continuing to ask questions around different topics related to where they want to go and what they want, even if somebody says to me, “I don’t know,” then I have a simple question: “If you did know, what would you do?” Usually, that takes people out. 

The questions are very powerful, and that’s part of being a coach—learning those questions and the timing to really talk to people in such a way that you allow them to step into a different reality. 

When we had the experience together in Costa Rica, that’s what I did with you. I had a longer time, which was three days, which was amazing because every time you would fall back into that pattern, I would distract you by walking on the beach, going swimming, drinking a margarita, or getting a massage. I kept shifting you out of that until you weren’t stuck in that habitual pattern. 

Not everybody’s going to do that, but just the fact of seeing what you want, what’s a bigger new challenge that is more exciting and more engaging than the problem. 

It didn’t solve your problem, but it gave you a different way to look at your problem. 

Because you hadn’t bought into the fact that there was no way it was going to work anymore, which is where you were a little bit, we were able to take you out and start to say, step by step, “How do we navigate this? How do we do something different here?” That was the process we went through for several months. 

It doesn’t mean your problem is going to be solved or you ignore your problem. It just means we’re going to take a different approach to it.

Makena: You have coached coaches or trained coaches for many years among a lot of other kinds of people that we work with. This is one of the skills that you would teach, right? That we taught in our coaching certifications and everything else. 

We do have a free guide that we’ll share with you all, which is our Top 10 Coaching Questions. 

Even if you’re not a coach and you’re listening to this, there are some really powerful questions in there that can open up a different line of thinking. They can start to open up your mind, as you’re saying, to not be in the habitual way of operating or focus on the problem, but starting to see new possibilities or new things that you want. 

We’ll put that in the show notes. The URL is wayofthemuse.com/questions, so you can download that as well. 

Is there anything else? When you teach a coach how to support someone? 

I think there’s a big piece of it. You can do the reflection questions yourself. Let’s say someone journals, and they do these reflection questions, maybe from the guide or something like that. 

I’ll just share that last night, I had an experience of sitting down with someone, and they were so curious. The way they asked questions and the way they listened, I started to see things in a different way. I have that experience with you all the time. People have that experience with us frequently. 

There’s something powerful about the space that someone else can hold with the right kind of listening. Would you say that’s true?

Gigi: Absolutely. We teach our coaches as well—sitting in the seat of the coach, which is in this place of asking questions in a very open way and waiting to see what comes, having no agenda for what the person should say, where they should go, or what they should do. 

It’s really tapping into your curiosity, being deeply interested in people. Some people have that naturally, but from my experience of over four decades of teaching, curiosity is a skill we have as children because we’re naturally born with it, but it goes away after a while because we get a little jaded in life. 

Practicing and learning that skill of curiosity and interest is important because when you do that, you allow people to really express themselves. You’re deeply interested, and that opens the space for people to really share.

Makena: I love the idea of bringing curiosity even to yourself. There’s that line, “Familiarity breeds contempt.” We think about that in relationships, but I think it’s also true for ourselves.

We think we know our lives, what we’re capable of, and our shortcomings, and so we’re in this fixed view. I think what we’re talking about here in terms of taking on a new challenge and going for what you want is sort of opening up the view, widening the lens, and going, “What else is possible here?”

Sometimes, our problems, especially if they’re interpersonal and involve other people or conflict, there can also be this addictiveness to it. People get a little caught up in that. Do you see that with people?

Gigi: I think we all have patterns, and when you take a left turn for a while, then we resort to those patterns. Often, in a dynamic with another person, a pattern starts to develop, and in that pattern, you get engaged. Then, being upset or being in a fight or having these issues becomes a distraction just because it’s habitual. 

That’s why asking the question and getting something outside of that that is engaging enough that you’ll shift your attention is a way of shifting it. 

Of course, the habit is to go back to that, so you have to really work at it. What you want has to be exciting enough that you will stay out of that pattern for a while. 

You had a guide. I assisted you in doing that because there were several times when I thought if I weren’t there, you would have fallen back in.

Makena: Oh, a hundred percent. A hundred percent.

Gigi: I think often if you have a guide, support, or a friend who’s really holding you to the line of “No, no, no, you said you’re going to do this.”

Makena: I think the friendship piece is interesting because, with interpersonal conflict or some of the challenges, we have this habitual way in our culture of people getting together and talking about their problems.

We get together with our friends, and of course, we need a place to vent sometimes. But sometimes, that’s the only thing we talk about. It opens up in a different way, which also starts to talk about what you really want. 

To give some examples would be helpful. What’s an example of someone you’ve worked with? We always change names and details and everything, but the types of scenarios that come up with people you’ve worked with when they are more focused on the challenge or the problems or the things that they’re struggling with, and then they shift, and they see something different.

Gigi: Sometimes clients go off, get distracted, and start creating distractions, a thousand different distractions, and get overwhelmed and then go down this hole of completely losing focus. 

I see this sometimes with women. It happens with men, too, but we’re predominantly working with women in our programs. They get so distracted and engaged that they completely forget about their business, or they’re not focusing on the right things.

Makena: Go ahead.

Gigi: Being aware of it, even though I give them feedback and they become aware, is learning how to catch that themselves then what are the tools to get back on track?

Makena: That needs a little more description. So, like, somebody is, you’re saying, building a business. There’s an entrepreneur going to build their business. You said they get distracted, or they create distractions. What does that mean?

A lot of times, personal stuff will come up. It’s not that you can’t address the personal things in your life, but sometimes there’s a pattern there. Anytime someone starts going for what they want in their business, for example, something comes up with their kids, or something comes up over here. 

Of course, if that happens, you have to address it. But we see them almost completely take their energy and attention off of their business and say, “I can’t focus on my business now.” 

There is a way of allowing the things in your life, dealing with the things in your life or addressing them if they need to be addressed, and then there’s also letting them completely pull you off and distract you. Is that what you’re saying?

Gigi: Yes. I also think I often see people getting distracted by their relationships. There’s an issue in their relationship, and relationships usually have maybe two issues, and those issues are over and over. They look different, but it’s the same issue underneath. People get engaged and a little addicted to it and keep on feeling like they’re going to be able to solve it. It’s that thing of if you’re a hammer, everything looks like a nail. They just keep on going at it in different ways. 

But the truth is, I’ve shown women many times to get their attention off of that. Go to what you want, go to building your dreams, go to making your life work. Then, all of a sudden, that issue can be seen completely differently and approached differently. 

Especially if you’re an entrepreneurial woman, you’re building your business, and you get distracted constantly by your relationship. It takes you off your game in terms of being in your business and being with your clients, and that affects your income. 

If the issue is about income, because often it’s money or sex, then if you’re over here fighting with your partner instead of really focusing on how to grow, how to sustain, you’re going to feel so much more powerful when you do that, even though it’s tough and challenging.

Wherever you put your attention, there are going to be tough and challenging things, whether you put it in the relationship or on growing. It’s difficult to talk about, and it’s complex to do.

Makena: Another example could be even something like self-doubt. People have self-doubt when they’re growing their businesses or going for their bigger dreams. It’s great to address that. There are different things you can do, and we talk about this a lot. 

What we find a lot of the time is that people get fixated on the self-doubt, and they start cycling through trying to fix the self-doubt and get rid of it, and it becomes a distraction from taking the action to move their business forward. 

An interesting question for people to reflect on as you’re listening is: What are those problems that come up for you or that are currently in your life? 

Maybe some of them have been going on for a while, whether it’s in your relationship or other relationships in your life or self-doubt or whatever it might be. 

How much time and energy do you spend focused on this problem or caught up in this problem? What would happen if you freed that time and energy up? 

Even if you freed up 80% of it. Maybe 20% still needs to go there to handle whatever needs to be handled. 

But what if 80% of that time and energy got freed up, and you put that into going for what you want instead?

Gigi: That’s incredible. I did that early on in my career, my first business, because I was constantly being distracted, giving my partner a hard time all the time. Then I had this awakening and saw, “Oh my gosh, the amount of time I spend trying to argue with him. If I shift that to putting it into my business and putting it into things I want to do, what a shift.” 

I did it, and my life completely changed. I made so much more money, had so much more time, and had so much more fun. It was a big “aha” moment, a very big one. 

It ended up being the theme for my first book in Germany, “Would you rather be right, or would you rather be rich?” Rich in all areas, richness in your life. 

Before, I was just in a habit, a way of being in a relationship. When I cleaned that up, it was like a completely different life than I had lived.

Makena: If you’re not going for rich in a financial sense, it could be, “Would I rather be right or get what I want?”

Gigi: Go on that trip, or have more time with my children, or be happier.

Makena: That’s such a great way to think about it. I think that’s often the “aha” for people: “Wow, the amount of time and energy and attention I’m putting into this thing.” If I free that up, then what becomes possible? 

Another time, I want to share one other example because it’s a slightly different way of looking at this. Someone I did coaching with came in, and she was wanting to build her business. She came in with her plan, and actually, this happens a lot. I’m thinking of one person in particular, but now, a few others are jumping into my mind. 

She had a plan of how she thought she should grow her business, and it was a logical, linear progression of how you might grow your business. It was a good idea, something that she’d come up with. It was a great idea; nothing wrong with that. 

So we kind of mapped it all out, and we looked at that. Then I started asking other questions, and I said, “Okay, great.” I took her to the bigger picture. What did she want? What was the end result? How did she want to feel in her business? How did she want to be interacting with her clients? How did she want this aspect to be? 

When we did that, this completely other picture emerged. It wasn’t that she wasn’t necessarily—sometimes, when this happens with clients, the initial idea turns out not to be it. 

Sometimes, it’s still something they want to incorporate, but they go, “Oh my gosh, I’ve been so focused on this one little thing, but the truth is there’s this much bigger vision that I have, this much bigger game I want to play.” 

The light bulb goes on. What’s so cool about that, and this comes back to our work around aliveness, is you can see when it really hits and brings someone alive. It’s like the light bulb is literally the lights in their eyes, right? It’s like, “We got it. We landed on it.” 

That’s how it should be for any of these examples we’re giving. When you’re going for what you want, that’s in alignment with what you desire, with your aliveness. 

I love when we do that because so often I think when people feel a little stuck or stagnant, or it’s taking a long time to get to where they want to go, or they feel like they’re not making as much progress, it’s because they’re in the box with their thinking. 

When you can expand out and really see, then things start to move faster. What becomes possible really accelerates somehow.

Makena: I think that’s the main distinction for today. It feels theoretical. It’s not theoretical at all when we work with people, and we really get in there. 

But if it’s a new concept for you, something new that you’re looking at, then it might stretch your brain a little bit to go, “Wait a second, how does that work? Where is this showing up for me?” 

But as always, as we say, just be curious and see, “Is this showing up anywhere?” What do you want there? 

To support you with that, again, we do have that Top 10 Coaching Questions PDF. It’s a free download, and you can go to wayofthemuse.com/questions, and you can download that. It’s really, really popular, so I think you’ll really enjoy it. 

I think that’s really it for today. Anything else?

Gigi: Nothing else. Thank you so much for listening.

Makena: Thank you, and we’ll see you next time.

Gigi: See you next time.

Makena: Welcome, everyone. Go ahead, Gigi.  

Gigi: Yeah. Welcome, everyone. We’re excited to be here and to do another live coaching. So, sit back and enjoy, Makena.  

Makena: I will say with these live coachings, if you’re listening on audio only, great. That’s a fabulous way to listen. We will often say things like, when we see someone light up – that’s great. 

But if you have an interest in really watching what we’re doing here, you may want to check out the podcast on YouTube. It is available there under “Way of the Muse”. So, let’s dive in.  

Gigi: Yeah. All right. You were sharing a little bit about where you’ve been, what’s going on in your life.  

Lisa: From a career point of view, my career has always been in the corporate world. So, working for PLCs as a sales and marketing manager, and then my life took a shift a couple of years ago when my daughter gave birth to her son, he was four months old, and she became very seriously ill and was in the hospital for quite a long time.

I ended up leaving my job to support Megan and help my son-in-law look after the little baby, so things really shifted. At the time, I had just commenced studying to become a nutrition coach. 

Since then, I’ve continued to study nutrition coaching, and I have now qualified. I’m currently working part-time doing marketing for a company and also helping look after my grandson, who’s now coming up to two. My daughter is back to health, which is brilliant. 

My son and daughter-in-law, who lost a baby late in pregnancy, have recently had a little boy. I’m spending a lot of time involved with them.  Because they have now gone on a very happy journey, which is lovely. 

What I’m struggling with now is that I’ve qualified and trained to be a coach, and I know all the tools, but I’m really struggling to find my confidence back and my motivation to press forward with my business. 

I feel like over the last year or so, I’ve lost myself because I’ve been supporting other people. I no longer do the job that I was doing for many years. Now, I’m trying to find a way to find myself again. 

I have really thought long and hard about coaching and why I began training to be a coach. It’s something that I’d really love to do. So, it’s in nutrition, and I feel it’s a really important thing to get the message out there about good nutrition and how it really supports our health and our lifestyle. 

I’m really looking for some guidance or some support as to how I can get my confidence back and motivation to really try and push my business forward now to find time for myself.  

Gigi: That’s a lot. You’ve been through a lot. I think to be patient with yourself and kind to yourself too. I see there’s definitely a lot of curiosity about your business. 

I’ll just say talking about the experiences you’ve been having in your life often, life is this up-and-down cycle. When we go into something where there is, especially with our families, it’s a very close and intimate thing. When there are challenges, now that you’re having a little space, what’s so important is you’ve got to see what enlivens you. 

So, you know, if you listen to our podcast, we talk a lot about aliveness. And so, first of all, I would say the confidence in your business, one way it will come is by you doing some things for you for a while.  

Lisa: Okay.  

Gigi: Because you’ve been giving and the batteries, they get depleted, and then it’s very hard to see. It’s hard to see what you want or how you want it. And like you said, you went out of your corporate job, you went into a completely different life in terms of helping people, and in that kind of lost yourself in there.  

To find yourself again, you have to do some things that you love. What do you love doing? What energizes you?  

Lisa: I’m a trained yoga teacher, and I absolutely love yoga, but I found that that fell to one side. That is something that I have recently picked up for my self-practice.  

I really love that. I love putting the mat out and just sitting on the mat. It makes me feel in this moment, in this cocoon where it’s just me and my mat. That is something that I have been really trying to focus on.  I love that.  That makes me feel happy. 

I love being out in nature as well. I live in a beautiful area in Surrey County, not far from London. It’s very green and beautiful. 

I also really love helping people. In the past, even when I was working full-time, I did a number of years where I was a volunteer community first responder. I would go out on our 999 calls—911 for you—to addresses within the local area where I live to get there before the paramedics did to offer support. I love that feeling of helping people and reassuring people. 

Whilst I probably don’t feel I’m particularly doing that at the moment, apart from my family, that does make me light up.  

Gigi: Do you have a good community? Do you have a community of friends?  

Lisa: Yes, I do. I have lots of nice friends of various ages.  

Gigi: Do you do things with your friends?

Lisa: Yes, I do.  

Gigi: A lot of light there.  

Lisa: We often meet up, and Simon and I are very, very close. We spend a lot of time with each other and our friends.  

Gigi: What do you see, Makena?  

Makena: I saw a lot of light with yoga, a lot of light with being outside, and especially with your friends, with getting out with people. 

It’s not that I didn’t see light with the helping people. Maybe there was a little more emotion there as well. So, it’s just a different quality. 

I think, too, maybe there’s a new way of helping people, which is also through your business.  

Gigi: You’ve started the yoga again, you said?  

Lisa: I’ve started my self-practice again on a regular basis. Maybe something that I would consider is getting back into running classes and actually teaching. But at the minute, I feel quite happy getting back into my practice and nurturing myself through yoga at the moment, rather than running yoga classes.  

Gigi: The nurturing of yourself is really important. Like you said, nurturing is… you want to really think about what makes you unwind and then fills you with energy.

And I have a feeling that, like me, when I work with people, I get a lot of energy. I think you’re going to be the same as you build your practice. 

But again, because of your style, it’s so important that you give, give, give and find ways to make nurturing yourself the priority. 

It needs to shift from nurturing everyone else to nurturing you first because when you nurture yourself, you’ll have so much more energy, clarity, and vision on how to be of service to other people. Do you get that?  

Lisa: Yeah, I do. And I feel, I think because of the situation, I kind of threw myself into supporting my daughter and my son and their families. And then it continued and continued, and then you don’t set boundaries before you know it. For the other people, it becomes a norm. And you may feel undervalued, not purposely, I don’t believe, but…  

You feel as if they don’t necessarily value your time and consider what you would like to spend all your time doing, which is not always the case.  

Gigi: Do you know the saying, “Familiarity breeds contempt?”  

Lisa: Yes.  

Gigi: It’s a little bit true. Like you said, unless you set some boundaries and clear… And so that’s too, I think, to go to your families because you’ve been so supportive and just say, “I love you so much. And I really feel that I need 90 days or six months to really focus on myself for a while. I can maybe do this a little bit here, this little bit here, but I need this time so I can rebuild my batteries and everything.”  

Makena: I would really see in that conversation is first to get clear on what would feel good for you there. If you do want to continue supporting, really go in and say, “You know what, it would feel really good for me to help out one day a week or to do this.” 

So, you go in there, like Gigi said, first just sharing how much you’ve enjoyed supporting them and love them. And then saying, “I’d love to take this time, really focus on me for a little while. Here’s how I’d love to continue supporting you and the kids and being with my grandbabies. how does that sound to you?”

Lisa: Yeah, that’s really nice, actually. I hadn’t thought, actually, when you said there about, perhaps going and saying, “I would like to spend three months or six months just working on me.” 

It’s actually really nice because it doesn’t feel like you’re saying, “I’m not going to be there so much forever. It’s just while I, yeah, just have to spend this time to rebuild.”

Gigi: It’s really, it’s extremely important, especially because you are starting a new business. You’re going to need the emotional… we love our families, and I love my kids, but the emotional as a mother, if you have two children…  

Lisa: I’ve actually got three. I’ve got another son.  

Gigi: Then you feel a little pulled by if you get so involved in their life, you also feel everything about their life. Sometimes it’s good to actually be outside of it because you can even be more helpful. You see that you can actually be present in terms of a guide for them.  

Lisa: I agree. I think as well, with mobile phones and WhatsApp videos, it can sometimes feel like you’re every part of their life. I’m very close, me and my husband are very close to all the children, and which is lovely. Sometimes you just need that space. You don’t need to know everything that’s going on in their day every single day.  

Makena: If you bring it to them with a clear… like, if there is still a way you’d like to be involved or help out so much too. Then if you tell that to them, first, you frame it and take this time for you, which they’re going to want that for you. 

Then you share, this is how I’d like to still be involved. Then they don’t feel like they did something wrong or whatever. It gives them a really clear way to go. “Of course, we’d love that for you.” 

Gigi: Yeah. So that’s first. Then the next piece with your business is once you claim that… if yoga is your lifeline right now in terms of nurturing them, really immerse yourself there and then start to see working on your business. If you’re going to do that three days a week, or you have to see how often are you going to do it? 

Then you look and see what are the things that you’re going to do to take action. Then you make that a fun experience for you. 

We have something called the self-doubt switch that Makena will send to you, and you can do it. It’s a wonderful PDF that you go through, and you read the story of how I really helped Makena with this when she was feeling insecure and feeling like “I don’t have value to offer. Is this going to work?” 

I talked with her, and then she had that written out, and she had a beautiful meditation that you can listen to to start to really shift the way you feel there.  

Makena: For those of you listening in, we will provide that as a resource in the show notes. So, if you are curious about doing this yourself, go to the show notes as well.  

Gigi: Yeah. But tell us about your business. I looked at your website. It’s beautiful.  

Lisa: Great. I aim to do it predominantly online. I think that one good thing that’s come out of the pandemic is that people can do this type of thing now, as it probably wasn’t thought of much before. 

I think this is one other aspect that I need to think about in my business. Sometimes I get quite confusing messages when you read up about how to start the business, whether you hone in on a specific niche. 

Ideally, I want to work with people who are suffering from chronic long-term illnesses, which could be really helpful if they looked at their nutrition and their lifestyle. My daughter bizarrely became very sick. She developed a gallstone when she was pregnant, and they didn’t pick it up, it moved, and it blocked the duct from her pancreas, and she ended up with pancreatitis. I knew nothing about the pancreas before she got sick, and I had no idea it could make people so dangerously sick and life-threatening. 

Things to try and support people who are then living with maybe long-term chronic issues and supporting them in the way that I now support my daughter so she can keep her pancreas as healthy as possible. That’s my real aim, is to find those people, of which I feel that there are many.

I think with the Western diet that we have and the chronic problem with obesity, there are so many people living with chronic illnesses that are making their lives pretty miserable. So, to try and support those types of people, it’s really my passion.  

Gigi: That’s such a value. If you think about it, this is what in the self-doubt switch you’ll see, is that when people go, “Oh, do I have anything to share?” 

You have to shift it to, “Oh my gosh, you know, this is not about me. It’s about what I have to share.” 

If you bring one thing to someone and they make a shift in their life, it makes a huge difference. Little things go so far. 

Especially when it comes to nutrition and health, it’s not always a matter of taking things out. I would say it’s more of adding things in. How can people start to add more healthy things in?  

So, how are you marketing your business or getting it out there? What are you doing?  

Lisa: At the minute, and this is another thing that I’m stuck with. I’ve spent time designing my website. So, I did it all. I’ve done that. 

I’ve got an Instagram account. I’ve made a Facebook account. I’m now potentially looking to sign up for a business coach who supports coaches with their marketing because that’s one thing that I’ve been really stuck at. 

I think I’ve qualified, and I really love the course. I really enjoyed it. I did lots of case studies that I was marked on. I enjoyed all that. 

And then I qualified and then was left with, “Will anyone want to listen to me?” 

Then also how, from a digital marketing point of view, that’s not really my background. So, I’ve been trying to teach myself how to do that, but I’ve gotten to the point where I think I need a bit more support because it’s taken me such a long time to learn how to do digital marketing. Basically, it’s very time-consuming trying to teach yourself things.  

Makena: Yeah. I’m curious… With the business side, when you talked and shared your story just now, the main thing to know about business when you start to build your business… 

I think many people who step into coaching and sometimes into other types of entrepreneurship don’t realize there’s the business side of whatever it is you do, whether that’s coaching or whatever. You have a product or a service, and then there’s the business side, like you’re talking about, and they are two different things. 

And so, I love that you’re leaning in to really ask, “Okay, how do I have this coaching skillset? How do I learn this business skillset?” 

Most of the time, when people hit that point, they are overwhelmed by the many different ways they can build a business. I don’t know if you’re sitting there, but for many people, it’s overwhelming. 

They go, “Wait a second. Is it this thing or this thing? Should I be focused on Instagram, or should I be over here doing this, or should I be out speaking?” 

The important thing is that, again, all of our work ties back to aliveness. This is when I stepped out of my work in online marketing for all those years and really wanted to step into coaching. 

At first, I developed a business program, and that was because I saw so many people in the online marketing space, coaches, speakers, and authors. They would come to me and they would say, “I think I should do, at that time, it was like video series. I think I should have a video series.” 

And I would say, “Great. Well, do you… is that something you’re curious about? Are you, even if you’re scared, do you have a curiosity about being on video?” 

“Oh no, not at all.” 

And I would say, “Well, that’s interesting. Why do you think you should do a video series?” 

“Well, because everybody else is doing it.” 

So, when I stepped into coaching and started on the business side, my passion was to integrate the aliveness and alignment pieces of Gigi’s method with what I grew up with, and she mentored me in the strategy piece. 

Why I share all that because there is no one-size-fits-all. You have to really look and see where your curiosity is. Are you really strongly interested in growing online? 

If so, is there a certain platform or a certain direction that you have a strong pull to that you’re interested in, or do you really think that’s the direction? 

I will say that when you shared your story about your daughter, that’s a powerful story. I immediately saw you either speaking on podcasts, like being interviewed on podcasts, or speaking in front of live groups. You could also find ways to do that more online, sharing your story through video content, or whatever it might be. 

But those were the two things that popped into my mind first. I’m just curious if you kind of tune into the different directions. Let’s say, being interviewed on podcasts, let’s say speaking in front of maybe some small live groups or going more like the Instagram route or something like that. Is there something immediately that feels like, “Ooh, even if it’s scary, it has energy for you?”  

Lisa: I think… yeah. I think actually speaking to people…that’s one other avenue that I’ve thought about, is trying to get out there and find places where I can speak to audiences about things that I’ve experienced, not just my daughter, but my own health as well, which is, I’ve massively helped through my own nutrition, the things that I learned while I was studying. 

But I think, yeah, that excites me. 

What doesn’t excite me is making loads of Instagram posts. I’m not a designer, but I can talk, and I’ve got… I think I have a story to tell. I’ve learned lots of things about nutrition that I can relate to people who want to hear them. 

So, yeah, I’m probably going down those avenues.  

Makena: I see that very strongly for you. When you shared your story, I saw you again, speaking in front of an audience and maybe also being interviewed on podcasts. 

So, that clears so much up because what I see people do otherwise is they go out, and they go, “Well, everybody’s online marketing, right? I need to be going and doing…” 

There are stages in business too. But when you’re at the very beginning stage, you want to pick one or two marketing avenues and really dive into those. And a lot of times, they can be offline or largely offline for people, right? 

It can be through your warm network. It can be through speaking or hosting small live events or something like that. So, that is what I would really consider leaning into as a starting point.  

Gigi: Okay. Yeah. And if you like videos, instead of creating posts, you could do all your posts could be videos, couldn’t they? 

You could just get one header done, a nice one, maybe two options, and farm that out to Fiverr or get somebody on Fiverr or one of those platforms. Then you could just do a video or show things in your kitchen. 

Like Makena said. You go to what’s fun for you. What brings you alive?  

Makena: And I would really think about your social media then, like Gigi said, what would be easy and fun for you? And then think about it in less of a place. Like, how do I get clients through social media? Because it doesn’t sound like that’s where the energy is right now. Instead, think I’m going to be going out and speaking, I think, through probably maybe hospitals even, or different avenues. 

You probably know a lot of places where you could get in front of these kinds of people from your own experiences. You could develop a speech or a little workshop, and it could be interactive if you want. And then there’s a way to make an invitation at the end for people to maybe have a free call with you. 

So, there’s a whole strategy around that side of things and how you can bring people in. But then you think about your social media more as, okay, “I’m going to be out speaking. And what if people go look me up online?” You have a beautiful website already. “What if they look me up on social media? I’d love to have some things there for them to be able to dive deeper with me, learn a little bit, maybe get to know more of my story or whatever it is that you think,” 

Like when you were going through this with your daughter if you had met someone, they had told you, given a speech, and then you had gone and looked them up on social media, what would you have loved to see? And that’s what you create. 

Get to know that person, build trust with them, and be curious about coming in and working with them. That’s all you have to think about. So, there’s no need for some certain strategy there.  

Lisa: That’s amazing. It does. It makes perfect sense. And just hearing you say that makes me suddenly feel excited to go away and do something like that.

Makena: You light up a lot. 

Lisa: It’s amazing when sometimes you feel so bogged down, you don’t know which way to go. You almost get in a panic. Then you don’t do anything because you’re panicking, and your brain’s full of all these ideas, and you don’t know what to try first. 

It’s great that I’ve been able to express that and that you’ve given me that advice. Thank you.  

Gigi: I’m sure we can clip out this coaching, too, and share it with you.  

Keep it simple. Like Makena said, one or two things and just keep it consistent. Because that’s what you want to do. 

If it’s where you’re strong and where you have curiosity and you feel alive, it’s going to be so much fun for you. And that’s going to attract. 

I’m a game person. You can ask all the women in my mastermind, everything. I’m always creating games, and my games are always 90-day games. So, you say, you know, I’m really going to do this for the next 90 days, whatever you choose, and in that, you’ll feel so much stronger and prouder. You’ll start to attract by doing that.  

Lisa: Brilliant.  

Gigi: Is that helpful?

Lisa: Very helpful. Thank you.  

Gigi: Any other questions or comments or…?  

Lisa: I don’t think so. I kind of feel like you’ve unlocked something and given me just some motivation to go in. 

I can see now that I just need to focus on things that make me feel alive and excited to talk about and do rather than maybe comparing myself to other people online and thinking I should be doing that. But it doesn’t feel right. It doesn’t feel like it aligns with my values, but I should. Should I be doing that anyway and then not? 

So, yeah, that’s been really helpful. Thank you.  

Gigi: You’re welcome. Thank you for being so open and receptive too.  

Makena: We always love to ask at the end of a session, what are you taking away? What’s clearer now, or what have you gotten today?

Lisa: I’m going to have a conversation with my family and set some clear boundaries, definitely. I think that will hugely help me because I think it will take away that, I guess, underlying resentment that’s been making me feel quite angry and frustrated. 

So, I’m going to do that. 

Then, I’m going to write a plan of places where I can go to speak to people. I’m also going to try and do some videos just to talk about my story, really. I think that’s probably the best place to start and put it out there. So, yeah, there are some really good things for me to go away and do.  

Makena: And remember yoga, taking care of you, nurturing you. 

Lisa: Yeah, I’m going to continue with my yoga. I think at the moment, every day, I need to get on my mat, even if it’s just for 10 minutes, just to give me that space. Yeah, it’s like a magic mat. You stand on it, and it makes you feel nice.  

Makena: There are two quick last things. When you talk about yoga, I can see you sitting on your mat. I have a visual of it because of the way you describe it. And it’s such a beautiful visual. 

What it brings to mind for me is that you are your own case study. As you are going out to start to support these people, the journey you’ve just been on, and that you continue to be on in terms of being someone also supporting people going through this, but also for the people who are going through it. 

Right now, the way you nurture yourself is like you’re doing it for you, but you’re also doing it for this bigger reason of you’re about to go really start coaching and supporting people, and they’re very much going to need to be nurturing and caring for themselves. 

So, it’s one of the beautiful things about being a coach is that you get to anything that you are going through and experiencing, you get to sort of do it for you and for this bigger reason and have this broader perspective of… and sort of even pay attention to, like, “as I’m going through this, what am I struggling with? What’s really working for me?” Have that kind of awareness as you’re going through it. 

The other thing I wanted to say is the word “boundaries.” I would maybe see if there’s a different word that fits because often the word “boundaries,” when we think about that, people use that word a lot, is it think that boundary is something between that keeps something out. 

Instead, it might be maybe it’s “parameters” for how you and your family are interacting, or you’re there with your grandkids or whatever you want to call it. You can see what word fits for you, but you may just want to play with what would be a different word.  

Gigi: Rituals. That’s what I was going to say, when you go to them, come from a place of gratitude? If you say “I so appreciate the opportunity that I’ve had to be so close with your families and be here and help. I just really feel I want to take some time for myself and get strong again. I’d love to on Wednesday nights take the kids, you guys do date night.” or whatever it is. And you put structure to it, in that it becomes like a ritual in your family. 

Then you set it up. Makena’s so right on this. When people talk about boundaries, there’s often something underneath that can feel a little negative. So, you want to go into it with clarity about what you want, sharing what you want, and also being grateful and acknowledging. 

Makena: Like Gigi said, it’s about creating your family rhythms and rituals. What is the rhythm of your family? What are the rituals you have together? 

Feel the energy of that versus saying, “I need to put boundaries in place.”

Lisa: Yeah, it’s such a different energy. Different energy.  

Makena: So, we can close on that.  

Lisa: That’s so much nicer and so much more fitting for me and my family because we are all very close and love each other a lot.  

Gigi: I see that.  Absolutely.  All right. Well, thank you so much for giving us this opportunity.  

Lisa: Thank you very much.  

Gigi: All right, everyone. Good luck to you! Write to us and let us know how it’s going.  

Lisa: Yes, I will. Definitely. 

Makena: If you are listening or watching and you’re curious about doing an on-air coaching session in the future, you can go to wayofthemuse.com/onair and apply. 

Thank you, everyone. See you next time.