Reframing Menopause: What No One Tells You About Transitioning Into Your Wisdom Years

Makena: Hello, everyone.

Gigi: Hi! Hi, Makena.

Makena: Hi. You’re back!

Gigi: Yeah, I went down into a deep, dark hole.

Makena: We missed you.

Gigi:  Plenty of rest, let me tell you.

Makena: Yeah, glad you’re feeling better. Yeah, happy to have you back.

Gigi: Yeah, thank you. Thanks for keeping it going.

Makena: All good. So we are back today with a topic that comes up a lot with the women that we talk to and in our coaching, which is menopause.

Of course, we’re not doctors, and I haven’t gone through it. You have. But as we started to really think about—somebody had brought this topic up with us and said, “Hey, can you do an episode about this?” And when I think, we’re like, “I don’t know if I have much to say on the topic.” And then I started asking you, and then you had a lot to say.

So we realized it probably was a good topic. And really, more, I think, on the mindset side, right? And on the how to approach this from the mental and emotional perspective is what we want to really talk about today.

Gigi: Yeah, like you said, we’re not doctors, and there’s—there’s so many—this is a huge scale, right?

So all I’m going to do is share just my experience and my experience of working with women through my 38 years and what I’ve seen in the evolution of this topic, which is such a big topic now.

Makena: Yeah, absolutely.

Gigi: I think we should start and tell them about what you bought for your baby yesterday.

Makena: Well, Sunny and I ended up in this store in Solana Beach, California, called Morning Lavender. And it’s a boutique and a coffee shop—it’s super cute. And they have all these, like, mommy-and-me outfits and, you know, frilly things. And so there’s this rack of, like, baby and newborn and, you know, dresses and sparkles and ruffles and all the things that—we’re having a baby girl.

And so we looked at them, and there was this one little outfit that has flowers, and it’s got butterflies, and it’s got a little tutu, and—over the top adorable. 

And so we were like, “Well, we’re not going to probably put her in this when she’s a newborn.” So she’ll be born in the summer. So we got it for her for when she’s one year old.

So we’re—we’re thinking ahead.

Gigi: I love how you guys plan.

Makena: We had to buy her something. It was so cute.

Gigi: Yeah. It’s very cute. Very cute.

And did you talk about our retreat last week too, in New York? I guess you probably did, right?

Makena: A little bit. I mentioned it, but why don’t you tell us from your perspective?

Gigi: Yeah, I just think it was just so wonderful to be with the women and, first of all, just to be in New York City again, ’cause I haven’t been there in so many years.

And we lived there for a few years, which we loved, in Manhattan. And so great to go back down memory lane and go back to where we used to live.

And then, of course, just the shops and everything. We went to the theater, and, you know, I think that the thing for me was just—it’s so powerful, what we can do. The retreat was really, what, two days?

Makena: Two days, yeah.

Gigi: People came in the day before, and just what we got accomplished in those two days was phenomenal, right? It was incredible.

And it just always reminds me that when we can get together—which I miss so much, and it’s hard for us because our clients are really spread out, you know, around the world—but that’s also why our yearly retreat that’s coming up in September is so powerful, because usually everyone comes. And they’re—you know, same thing, in seven days, you really get a lot done.

So, yeah, I just—I miss the in-person because I did that for so, so many years.

Makena: Yeah, it was, like you said, super powerful. The women were just, I think, blown away by how much we—and when we say we got done, I think maybe it’s good to describe that a little bit more.

Like, just in terms of—yeah, next steps, clarity. Always. But also—go ahead.

Gigi: The deeper issues. I think sometimes that you—you know, you don’t really get to when you’re sitting on a Zoom call.

Makena: Absolutely.

Yeah. So, yeah, I’m really excited. I won’t be able to be at this retreat, but she’s going to lead it, and she’s done this for almost 40 years—amazing, amazing retreats all around the world.

And we’ll have guest teachers, and we have an incredible group of women coming from our mastermind and then women from outside of the mastermind.

And like you said, I mean, I don’t know of very many retreats that are seven days.

Gigi: Yeah.

Makena: So there’s something to that in the first place—of just really, like you always talk about, stepping outside of your life for a week. A week plus with travel.

And really, it’s in the gorgeous Bavarian Alps, like the foothills of the Bavarian Alps, and there’s a 3,000-meter spa, which is like 9,000 square feet, and saunas, and just opportunities to relax and unwind and connect.

But also, through the facilitation—hugely—we create the environment, and you create the environment, and the exercises and the coaching to really help people self-reflect in a way that we just don’t do when we’re on vacation or just sitting there trying to think about things ourselves.

So we’re really excited about it.

Gigi: Yeah. In fact, one of my German clients—well, she actually—she didn’t refer it to us, but one of our other German clients did. And she just spent the last few days there. She took her kids skiing there.

So I have all kinds of videos and photos, and—absolutely stunning. Beautiful.

Makena: Oh, nice! Beautiful.

So this is in September. It’s called The Art of Letting Go: Discover the Path to Effortless Success.

And if you’re curious about that, we actually have a special going on. I think it might only be like one more day when this podcast episode comes out—until the 15th of March.

And that is where you can sign up and get a bonus coaching session. So, on top of getting to go to the retreat and everything that’s included with that, you get an hour-long coaching session with me, which is a $1,000 value.

And you can use that for anything you want here in the next couple of months to really support you on—again, if there’s something you want to get clarity on, or you’re growing your business, or next steps in career, or something in your personal life.

And so that’s a really special bonus we have going on right now. So you can go to wayofthemuse.com/Germany if that’s something you’re curious about. And we’ll put that in the show notes as well.

Makena: Okay. Yeah. So back to menopause.

So, Gigi, you’ve gone through this.

Gigi: Yeah. Long time ago.

Makena: I guess it was a while ago.

Gigi: Yeah, long time ago.

Makena: Yeah. And I know you’ve worked with a lot of women going through this as well.

So just share a little bit about, again, what you’ve seen here. Like, what happens when people start going through this stage, they’re talking to you about it? Are there any common themes or anything you typically say to them?

Gigi: Because of the span of my work, and a lot of my work has been with women through my career. Talking about being in person, I led workshops in person for 15 to 17 years, every weekend, all around.

I’ve seen a lot through all those decades. What’s fascinating now is it’s such a big topic. It was always a topic, but never like it is now. Absolutely never like it is now.

Going more into the topic, because it is a really pivotal shift in a woman’s life.

What I’m seeing is that for some women at this age, everything becomes about their menopause. I’m not trying to downplay anything that’s going on with someone.

As we mentioned before, we’re not doctors, and we absolutely know that everyone has a different experience.

I think what we want to share today is just maybe a new lens, a different way of looking at it, and a way that, even though the experience can be intense—the hot flashes and things like that—the way you frame it is really important to the experience you have, which is true almost in everything in life.

Makena: Really?

Gigi: Yeah.

Makena: I mean, it affects everybody differently, right? So it’s hard to say what one person’s experience is or a different person’s experience is.

But like you said, I do see also, in working with our clients, that when they’re in that chapter of life, anything that’s challenging—emotionally or physically—they go, “Oh, it must be menopause.”

Gigi: Yeah.

Makena: “It must be menopause.”

Gigi: Or perimenopause.

Makena: Yeah.

Gigi: It’s really unbelievable.

Makena: Yeah. So there’s like a 15-year span or something where everything must be perimenopause or menopause.

And again, we’re laughing and making light of that, but of course, some of that is probably true.

And on the other hand, why is it important that we don’t just label everything, “Oh, that’s perimenopause. Oh, that’s menopause”? What does that do that’s not good?

Gigi: Honestly, it becomes an excuse a little bit.

We have a client in our mastermind, and I think she just went to the doctor. Same thing, they said that maybe she was going into menopause.

We were having this conversation, and some issue or problem came up, and I saw her go to make it about menopause.

I said, “Don’t do that. This is something you need to work on.”

She laughed and laughed and laughed. She said, “Oh my gosh, you’re right. I was just going to write it off to this is menopause.”

In that moment, I said, “That’s where you’re going to have to be really, really careful,” because it’s just kind of like, “Oh, okay, that’s it,” and, “Oh, that’s a bad experience.”

Then there’s a collective agreement when we get something like this. Because it is such a topic now, and granted, of course, it needs to be attended to in a way that people have a framework for understanding it and have the kind of support they need emotionally and also physically—medically, how they take care of themselves.

Makena: Yeah, there’s so much I want to go into there.

But first, I think it’d be great to just share a little bit of your story.

Not because it’s the typical story—because again, everybody’s experience is different—but just because it is your experience and you have gone through this.

So what—yeah, if you can think back to—Your menopause experience.

Gigi: I remember my menopause experience.

Of course, I remember it as an emotional time, definitely.

The interesting thing is, when I was going through it, there was a doctor in Houston, and he was one of the beginning doctors—Dr. Hotzi—I had heard about through some people.

He was the first person who really started tapping into the whole menopausal time and bioidentical hormones and everything. He made it super popular, and he wrote a book about it.

I heard about him, and I went to him. I went on the bioidentical hormones for about six to eight months. It made a big difference for me. I felt great. I lost weight.

But I did some research and really didn’t feel like it was the right thing to stay on them, so I went off of them.

Of course, I had ups and downs during this time.

The other thing from my—

I didn’t have any stories. My mother didn’t pass on a lot of stories about her menopause. With my friends, some of us were going through it at the same time, and we had different experiences.

The things about hot flashes and things like that—I had very few. I mean, hardly any.

When I did a little research about it, I saw a huge part of it is how you take care of yourself.

I’ve always been a healthy eater. We have a pretty healthy lifestyle, even though sometimes I go completely off.

That made a huge difference.

For me, the big thing is I just didn’t buy into the belief that menopause was going to be horrible for me.

The other thing I see at this period of time is that it’s almost a moment in time. It is a time to get your attention.

It is a time to look deeper in. I think anything that’s out of alignment comes up during this time.

The other thing I had that was an incredible gift is I had my work. My work—I’m always looking at what’s next for me because that’s what I’m doing for my clients.

I’m always looking at that—evolving and evolving.

Those are some of the benefits for me of why maybe it wasn’t such a huge ordeal for me.

Makena: Yeah, so just to kind of recap those, and we’ll go deeper into these and some other things as well.

You didn’t have a big story or you hadn’t sort of been told and been a part of this narrative that menopause is this really difficult thing. It’s this terrible experience.

Things are just going to keep getting worse.

The other one you said was your lifestyle. You ate healthy, you took care of yourself. That probably played a role.

Then third was that you had your work in terms of really being able to look and see what was next and see this as a, maybe more of an evolution and a transition as opposed to just, again, the beginning of the end or something.

Gigi: Right.

Makena: Because I hear this with women too, “Oh, my body’s falling apart,” and all of this.

If you create that story, then yeah, that’s what’s going to happen.

Your body is going through profound changes. On the other side of that, for us women that are older, we can tell you that if you take care of yourself, it is actually an awakening to a super great time in your life.

That mindset of knowing that it’s almost like a rebirth is so important to get through it in a way that’s conscious instead of unconscious.

Gigi: Because what happens is women step into their power at this time.

You know, at the age when women go through menopause, and it starts for women at different times—I think for me, mine was pretty late. I think it was around maybe 55 when I really completed.

And in that time, you really step into who you are. It’s kind of like shedding everything you’ve been in your life up to this point, which has kind of been about everybody else, and now coming in more into who you are.

Makena: Hmm. I love that perspective.

I actually want to share something that I came across because we’ve been in this conversation, you and I, for a long time.

So when I saw this, I thought it was really interesting. It was on Instagram, and the handle of the woman who posted it is Stephanie with a P-H, so S-T-E-P-H-A-N-I-E, and then Stephanie Nosco, N-O-S-C-O. That’s her Instagram handle.

She posted Menopause: A Chinese Medicine Perspective, and I really thought this was interesting.

Obviously, Chinese medicine, for those of you who aren’t super familiar, has been around for thousands and thousands of years.

And this is what they believe around menopause.

They say the uterus has a unique connection to the heart through the meridian known as the bao mai, literally translated as the uterus vessel.

Each month, blood comes from the heart through the bao mai and settles into the uterus, providing nourishment for potential life and/or menses.

Around the age of 49, or whatever that age is for you, the flow through this channel and others begins to reverse direction.

So it moves from the uterus to the heart.

Instead of blood flow going down, it’s going up.

And this new flow causes profound changes on a physical, emotional, and spiritual level.

So they call this the Second Spring—menopause—because it represents a new time in life when women receive initiation into more intuitive capacities of the heart.

Because the heart holds all of our spirit and soul’s mandate, some postmenopausal women report they’re more connected to their true selves without the overwhelming emotional flux that comes with menstruation each month.

Some women find they’re more connected to their truth and less fearful of speaking it unapologetically.

There’s a little bit more. I think it’s interesting to share, though.

In addition, a major flow of energy known as the microcosmic orbit begins to flow in the opposite direction, sometimes called the water path.

The water path brings about more creativity, intuition, and wisdom.

It tonifies blood that was previously used for menstruation, bringing it back to the heart.

So there’s just this major reorganization.

And it says it may be uncomfortable to transition—with sleep disturbances, hot flashes, heightened or irregular emotions, and poor digestion.

So be patient with your body and avoid turning frustration inward as much as possible, as anger can exacerbate symptoms.

If there’s unresolved anger and frustration, it’s going to be highlighted.

If there’s any internalized shame and guilt, it may also arise, as these pertain to the liver.

Also fear and anxiety.

So anything, basically, that’s been there under the surface that hasn’t been addressed comes to the surface in this transitionary time.

Then she has more—you can read the post if you’d like, we can link to it in the show notes—about breathing and meditating and supporting your diet and different things that you can do.

But I just remember when I read that, I was like, “Oh, this—we’ve been saying something similar from our perspective.”

And then to hear it from a Chinese medicine perspective was really, really interesting.

Gigi: Well, you know, I’m going to share a quote from Kim. She’s a—what would you say? A sex therapist, I guess. Or sex coach.

She says in one of her podcasts that the Western world—we’re the ones that make it such a big deal.

Most other cultures, some cultures, don’t even pay attention to it.

And, of course, like the Eastern perspectives you’re talking about here, they see the wisdom in it.

They recognize that it’s a time of change, discomfort, and things not being the same, but also that if you ride that wave, it’s such a powerful time to fully step into who you are.

And as she said, not having that up-and-down emotional experience that you have when you’re having your period every month.

Makena: Absolutely.

You know, it’s interesting. I’m going through pregnancy right now, obviously, and it’s very, very different than menopause—probably the opposite experience in some ways.

But I feel like there’s some overlap in the sense that it’s this thing happening in your body, and it’s overwhelming a lot of the time.

There are all these different symptoms, and you feel different all the time.

But we have such a view—it’s interesting going through pregnancy and experiencing both the beautiful and the challenging aspects.

Culturally, there’s this view that pregnancy is this beautiful thing.

It’s like, “Oh, it’s this beautiful time, you’re creating life, you’re birthing life.”

Some people go through a lot. Some women go through—excuse my French—but hell, with nausea the whole pregnancy or whatever that might be.

Hormones changing, postpartum, all kinds of things.

And yet the overall lens is still that it is this beautiful time.

I think that’s what we’re missing a little bit with menopause.

You’re going to go through what you’re going to go through. It may be quite challenging.

But that’s what I loved about that post and what you’re saying, Gigi.

It is this transitionary time into something really profound and beautiful, which is your wisdom years.

It’s a different way of walking through the world without that emotional volatility in the same way—at least once you get through it.

There’s got to be wisdom to it because it’s what our bodies do.

We go through puberty when we’re young, and all the hormones are coming in.

Gigi: Totally.

Makena: And that’s challenging. Super challenging for many.

Gigi: Very challenging.

Makena: Yeah. And now they’re leaving, right? They’re changing and leaving when we go through—

Gigi: Exactly.

Makena: Yeah.

So just, again, reframing this.

What are you—? I could even see someone maybe doing some journaling around that.

What are you letting go of? What are you stepping into?

Whatever is arising in you—

That’s how I feel about periods, honestly. That’s a whole other topic.

How challenging that can be for many women, including myself at times, having very challenging cycles.

In that, I found that the emotional component of that time of the month—PMS, mood swings—it’s often not that something out of the blue is showing up.

It’s often that something underneath hasn’t been fully looked at, or I haven’t been fully honest with myself about.

And then I’m more in the emotion of it—I can’t push it down.

I have to really sit there and look at it and be with it.

Now, that’s not always true. Sometimes it’s just a reaction.

But I have found that it’s a bringing to the surface.

I wonder if menopause—I think that’s kind of what the post was saying—can be the same way.

If there’s anything you haven’t looked at, this is the time.

Gigi: Absolutely. I think, you know, we had in here that if there’s anything out of alignment at this time, your body’s going to show you. That’s physically or emotionally or both.

It is this— I think if we resist it, then you don’t really use it properly, you know, to honor your body during this time.

As we tell our women, if you need to quit for a day, then you quit for a day. You honor what’s going on and just understand that this too shall pass.

But if you resist it, then it sticks. And then it makes it just a much worse experience.

I think also it’s really an important time to move the body. To move the body and, as we said, to really check your diet.

And, as you’re saying, journal. Dig deep.

What is calling to you?

What are you longing for that you might not be doing?

Or what are you longing to let go of that’s been in your life up until this point?

This is a reinvention time. If you use it that way, it’s a super exciting time—on, of course, the other side.

Makena: Absolutely.

So really, again, there are going to be challenges inherent in this, but can you reframe it and see it also as a gift?

Gigi: Yes.

Going back to Kim Anami, the sex coach—she says that the symptoms are because you’re under stress.

And what happens is we get so under stress that we ignore sexuality.

She really believes and talks about this a lot in her work—that the best way to combat your stress is with sex.

Makena: Put that on a bumper sticker.

Gigi: And at this time, I know women go, “Well, I’m not really interested.”

But here’s something to play around with, because again, that’s a little bit in the belief system.

And you know how that is—when you don’t use it, you lose it.

If you are not being intimate with your partner, or you’re distant, or you’re not taking that time to have time for intimacy—even if it’s not sex, intercourse, but intimacy, touching—what happens is you bring that back alive in yourself.

It’s a powerful time again to be able to go into that in such a way where it really is a relief and a support to you instead of something you want to go away from.

Makena: Yeah, and intuitively, it makes sense, right?

We’re talking about a hormonal shift in the body more than anything, and sex, intimacy—even if that’s self-pleasuring, if you’re not in a relationship—turns on different hormones.

It gets the juices flowing in a different way, for lack of a better word.

I can’t imagine that would be anything but helpful in this time, right?

In terms of, you’re having this big shift in hormones, and maybe not having as many of those things online, but if you could sort of support that by keeping some of these energies flowing, then—

That intuitively makes a lot of sense to me.

But like you said, I do see— you said something about the collective here.

I think it’d be good to describe that a little bit more.

What is it that happens there? What do you mean by the collective?

Gigi: Well, we start talking to everyone and listening to our friends, and they say, “Oh yeah, I have no interest.”

And then you go, “Oh, I don’t either.”

So what happens is, you form an agreement.

Then again, you see your sexuality and your connection, your intimacy, through that lens.

People believe the myth that things are supposed to deteriorate in a relationship.

If you’re in a committed relationship and you’ve been in a marriage a long time, that sex is just not the same, you know? It’s not as good or whatever.

And people believe that.

Makena: Or if you’re single, same thing—that you’re going to be less vibrant, less sexual, and all of that over time.

Gigi: And so in that, we buy into this idea that it deteriorates.

But again, if we tend to these areas—take care of our mind, body, our relationships—at every age, then what happens is, again, it’s a gift.

I work with power couples, and that’s one of the first things I really work on—intimacy is first and foremost.

Because that’s the fuel for the connection for the couple.

That’s the strength, that’s their health, that’s everything.

It has to do with the fuel for their success and everything they do in their life.

And that it can get better.

I’ve watched that time and time again with my couples because they attend to it.

Makena: I really want to do a podcast episode on this with you.

Because I think it’s such an important topic.

Some people listening are going, “Yeah, that makes so much sense. I need to prioritize that more.”

And some people are listening and it’s bringing up stuff.

I just know from working with people—they feel resistant.

They’re like, “I don’t want to do that. That’s just not important to me.”

So there are so many nuances we could go into here.

But just for the sake of time, I want to keep us on topic with menopause.

So I think we’ll leave it at that in terms of the sex and intimacy part.

But there’s a little nudge for some of you—can you prioritize that more in this time, with yourself and/or with a partner?

Gigi: Yes.

Makena: So, you’re talking about this being a gift.

There’s this retraining of the brain we’re describing here.

Instead of looking at what doesn’t work about this—because it’s going to be there—it’s, “What is the beauty in this? What is the gift in this?”

I mean, I’ve gone through plenty of ups and downs in this pregnancy physically.

And in that, that’s what I keep getting to do.

“Okay, this is a beautiful thing. I’m so excited.” Of course.

And it’s a transition. It’s bringing stuff to the surface to clear.

Just really choosing my lens that I put on it, instead of going, “Oh my God, this has been so hard.”

So it’s a similar thing here.

Gigi: Yeah. I mean, in many ways, what— it’s a maturing, right?

Makena: Yeah, absolutely.

So we’ve talked about kind of this collective belief around menopause.

How do you see this play out in the day-to-day with women?

Gigi: Well, we hear it.

We hear it in our clients when they first go to the doctor and get told.

And then from that moment on, what I start to see is, of course, they have—

Now they have a name to put to something that they’re feeling, which is important.

Otherwise, maybe we worry a lot, wondering, “What is going on?” Because I feel so different.

The other thing we touched on is getting together and agreeing in such a way that, “It’s just awful, and it’s going to be awful.”

Instead of getting together and being real.

Saying, “Hey, I’m having a difficult time here. It’s really uncomfortable. Things are changing. I feel scared. I don’t know what to do.”

Sharing that.

But not having to agree that that’s the way it is for everyone.

Anytime we get these collective views where everybody starts agreeing on something, it’s always time to step back and go, “Okay, what’s the truth here?”

We can be part of the conversation, but we want to do it consciously.

We don’t want to go unconsciously into it.

That’s what I see often happen—it becomes an unconscious, “Oh, that’s why this is happening,” or, “Oh, I can’t do this because of this.”

Makena: Yeah.

Gigi: Or that, “I feel this way,” or, “I’m acting this way because I’m in menopause.”

And that’s why I say the excuse is—it gives us an excuse.

We get to be, “Oh, you know, I can be a little tacky or mean or whatever to my partner. I’m in menopause right now.”

That’s where the consciousness of being—sharing what you’re feeling, what’s going on—but don’t believe in the story behind it.

Makena: Yeah, yeah, that’s super important.

So, in your conversations—

Gigi: And the story that it’s like—it’s a dead end.

Makena: Yeah.

Gigi: Or something that’s never going to pass.

Makena: Yeah.

So, in the conversations then with other people, it’s really about being aware of that—how you’re talking about this time, how you’re—

Like you said, a label can be really empowering on the one hand.

Sometimes it’s like, “Okay, I know what’s going on. It’s a normal thing. It’s not just me.” That can be really empowering.

It can be a great jumping-off point for looking for solutions.

Like, “Okay, if I’m going through menopause and these are the kinds of symptoms I’m having, and there are other people out there that have gone through this—”

I mean, one of our clients specializes in this, right?

She’s—

Gigi: Right.

Makena: Menopause and chapter two.

This is really her brilliance.

So, there are lots of people out there sharing resources, information.

Using it as a jumping-off point to look for solutions.

And, of course, some days being like, “Oh, okay, it’s just one of those days. I’m just off today. Maybe there’s a hormonal component or whatever it is going on.”

That’s, I think, an empowering way to use it, like you’re saying.

Talking about it as a transition—what’s the gift in this? What’s coming to the surface that wants to change?

But not getting caught up in all the ways that it’s a limitation.

All the ways that it could hold you back, or it’s going to go on and just—life is going to go downhill from here.

Maybe that’s a nice—

Gigi: Or your sex life.

Makena: Yeah.

Gigi: Or, you know, all of those things.

Makena: Oh my gosh.

All the collective myths that we hear and see.

Thank goodness for podcasts and for, you know, media in many ways.

I mean, you have to be selective and find the things that are right for you.

But I do think there’s so much good information out there that even if you are surrounded by people that are all talking negatively about something—

You know, I’ve had women say, “There are no great relationships out there,” because they just don’t see them in their life, right?

Or, “Everybody’s relationship deteriorates after a certain time.”

Or whatever that might be.

If you don’t have examples in your life, then go out and look for them.

You can really—you can find that out there.

I think a nice place to close, Gigi—first, I want to hear if you have anything else that we haven’t covered.

Gigi: Yeah.

Makena: And secondly—well, let’s start there.

Is there anything else?

Gigi: Yeah.

I do want to say that we touched on this, but really look at this as a time of reinvention.

Use this as a time of ultimate self-care.

What a fun thing—you have this opportunity.

Things are going on in your body—carve out ways to take care of yourself.

Attend to yourself in such a way that you really take time.

Go to the spa, get massages, do the things, eat healthy.

Because, you know, there are so many beautiful women these days.

More and more and more women—you see them aging incredibly.

Gorgeous in their fifties, their sixties, their seventies.

And during this time, your kids might be out of the house.

A lot of times, by this time, the kids are out of the house.

So it’s a time for you to really have time for yourself and for your partner, if you’re in a relationship.

Take this time and, as we said, look and see—what do you want?

What are you longing for?

Take lots of time to journal.

Maybe you start doing one little new thing, or another new thing, to try things out.

Use it as a time to really explore.

Makena: I love that.

And that’s where, if you are curious about something like our retreat—or going to a different retreat or something like that—that’s a great opportunity.

Give yourself the gift, at this time, to really step out and self-reflect.

See what is coming up.

How do you move through anything that’s there that’s not serving you?

And really, what do you want next?

Gigi: Yeah.

Makena: So, where I wanted to close—Gigi, you’re well past menopause now and have been for some time, as you mentioned.

Because there is this belief that this is kind of like a downturn in your life or something like that—Could you just speak from the other side, for women?

Now that you’re through it, what’s different? What’s great about it?

Or also, maybe there are challenges.

But this chapter in your life, on the other side of menopause.

Is there anything you want to speak to there to just give women a different perspective?

Gigi: Yeah.

I think that it is a time—like I said—where you become more of yourself.

Especially for me—my kids have been out of the house for quite a while now.

You get to become and grow the life that maybe you’ve always wanted to live.

It’s just so different in the way you feel.

You don’t have those huge emotional ups and downs.

I have emotional ups and downs, but they are very, very different.

They have a different feeling about them.

And the biggest thing—I don’t think the world is going to come to an end.

Makena: What do you mean by that?

Gigi: I remember when I used to have my period, I would feel like things were going to be like this forever.

That was always the feeling.

And that maybe sometimes I dramatized and felt that for a little bit, but honestly, in my soul, I don’t feel that at all.

There’s a different perspective.

I think also, you have the chance to completely recreate yourself physically.

Our bodies are so wise and so amazing.

If you look at all the different women that you’ve been up to this point, you can become almost anything you want to be these days, as long as your health is good.

That’s the biggest thing—our health.

Makena: Yeah.

Gigi: How you take care of yourself.

Makena: I know that you’re a role model to so many women in this.

Really continuing to go for your life, reinvent yourself.

Take care of yourself.

And there are so many beautiful role models out there these days, like you’re saying.

Whether that be celebrities or just women you see on social media where it’s like, “Wow.”

Super fit, or they go into something in their later years and they master it.

It’s just—again, what do you want that next chapter of your life to be about?

Gigi: Yes.

Makena: I love that perspective.

Thank you for sharing.

Gigi: And like you said, the wisdom part, too.

Something about the way you see life changes completely.

Of course, I’m human, and I get off, but there’s just this much more expansive view about life.

It’s not so tunnel-vision.

That’s just a really, really nice place to see and be.

Makena: So reframing this as really entering your wisdom years.

I think that’s a really beautiful way of putting it.

Your wisdom years, your third act—whatever you want to call it.

Second chapter, third chapter.

Well, beautiful.

Thank you so much for sharing your wisdom and your experience with us.

And for your questions, everyone listening, we hope you enjoyed this.

If you have a woman in your life that’s going through this time that you feel would really benefit from this conversation, please, please, please share it with them.

That’s one of the greatest gifts we can give the people in our lives.

If something really touched you, pass it on.

And also, it’s a great gift to us who create this podcast, to help us continue to spread the word.

So please share the podcast.

If you haven’t already, subscribe.

Gigi: Yeah.

Makena: Every subscription counts, every follow.

Gigi: Like it.

Makena: Like it. Rate it.

All the things. Anything you can do on that front is super supportive for us.

Gigi: Yeah.

Makena: So, thank you.

Gigi: Thank you.

Makena: And we’ll see you next time.

Gigi: All right. Bye.

Makena: Bye.